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returntothepit >> discuss >> Hardcore recommendations by MillenialKingdom on Jan 3,2009 9:42pm
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toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 3,2009 9:42pm
I want to get more into old school Hardcore and already know bands like Earth Crisis, 25 Ta Life, All Out War, etc.

Could you give me some recommendations?



toggletoggle post by The_Revealer at Jan 3,2009 9:59pm
Bold.



toggletoggle post by MASlayer at Jan 3,2009 10:02pm
Sick of It All
Wrecking Crew
Blood for Blood
Cro Mags
Bad Brains



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Jan 3,2009 10:18pm
Gorilla Biscuits
Youth of Today



toggletoggle post by The_Revealer at Jan 3,2009 10:43pm
Agnostic Front
Minor Threat



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Jan 3,2009 11:22pm
Verbal Abuse, Negative Approach, Siege, rinse, repeat. Also D.R.I.



toggletoggle post by grizloch   at Jan 4,2009 12:00am
sheer terror.

if you like earth crisis check out one king down

everyone ever should listen to shockwave



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 12:04am
shockwave is gold.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 4,2009 12:13am
Thanks, people.



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 12:18am
if you like all out war, check out 100 demons.



toggletoggle post by MarkFuckingRichards  at Jan 4,2009 12:48am
I'm not going to limit this to old school...
Breakdown, Integrity, Ringworm, Slapshot, Warzone, Madball, Mushmouth, Out To Win, Black Flag (maybe not really hardcore, but they're amazing nonetheless).

Another band to check out in the vein of AOW is Arkangel; more on the Slayer-core side of things, but they were the fucking shit.



toggletoggle post by Pires at Jan 4,2009 12:59am
I remember arkangel. Not too pleasantly though. Kinda meh.



toggletoggle post by AndrewBastard at Jan 4,2009 1:22am
MarkFuckingRichards said[orig][quote]
Integrity, Ringworm, Slapshot, Warzone, Madball,


Yep and...

Marauder
Bloodlet
Terror
Biohazard




toggletoggle post by RustyPS  at Jan 4,2009 1:45am
since everyone has already given the most essential old school already....instead of giving you tr00 old school....i'm gonna give you new school that sounds like old school

Ceremony
Lights Out
Outbreak
Internal Affairs
Pulling Teeth
Trash Talk
Rise And Fall
Paint It Black
Sabertooth Zombie
Black Ships
Cut the Shit
The Bonus Army
Braindead



toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Jan 4,2009 1:47am
how about nothing?




toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 1:56am
some metalcore got into this thread.



toggletoggle post by MarkFuckingRichards  at Jan 4,2009 1:59am
At least it's real metalcore...or as we called it in the old days, metallic hardcore.



toggletoggle post by mikeofdecrepitude at Jan 4,2009 2:02am
You think you're hard, you and your crew ...Now it's time to see if you're true.



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 2:02am
wut aboot Knuckle Duster.



toggletoggle post by ZJD   at Jan 4,2009 2:17am
since i wouldnt call your list 'old school hardcore', here's a list of stuff thats good, not yet listed, and old to varying degrees:
Infest
Agnostic Front
Gauze
Heresy
Dropdead
Spazz
Poison Idea

maybe not hardcore, but punkthings you should peep anyway:
Disrupt
His Hero is Gone
Gism
Deathside






toggletoggle post by archaeon at Jan 4,2009 5:14am
In b4 Deadbeat



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney at Jan 4,2009 8:06am
Brosemite Slam



toggletoggle post by josh_hates_you  at Jan 4,2009 9:02am
judge
chokehold
shelter
jerry's kids





toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Jan 4,2009 10:16am
Pro Pain



toggletoggle post by corpus_colostomy at Jan 4,2009 10:26am edited Jan 4,2009 10:28am
district 9
path of resistance
terror st (many thanks to XmikeX)
one life crew

Honorable mention:

D.R.I
BIOHAZARD
SOIA




toggletoggle post by superman at Jan 4,2009 11:28am
eternal suffering



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 4,2009 12:48pm
I've heard of probably 65% of the bands you guys listed, like Biohazard, D.R.I., Agnostic Front, Terror, 100 Demons, etc. Those are the big names. I'm looking for more obscure stuff, I guess.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 4,2009 12:49pm edited Jan 4,2009 12:49pm
I've been downloading:

Coalesce
Integrity
Youth of Today
25 Ta Life
Minor Threat
Jesus Wept
Overcome



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 12:57pm
9 shocks terror.



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 4,2009 12:58pm
integrity's seasons disc is more than a must have.



toggletoggle post by AndrewBastard at Jan 4,2009 1:15pm
Youth of Today is a good call but really, you're download 25TL? They are awful.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Jan 4,2009 1:31pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
integrity's seasons disc is more than a must have.


Those who fear tomorrow
Systems overload
and
Humanity is the Devil
are all must haves too.

and to Mark Richards Blag Flag is 100% a hardcore band.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Jan 4,2009 1:32pm
Discharge
Amebix
The Exploited
Cro-mags
Minor Threat



toggletoggle post by joeyumbrella  at Jan 4,2009 1:41pm
INTEGRITY
can't stand losing
pulling teeth
trapped under ice
trash talk
harms way (thanks WMF)



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 4,2009 3:16pm
You people all fucking suck.



toggletoggle post by MASlayer at Jan 4,2009 6:35pm
SSD
Strife
The Freeze
Deviate
Backfire
Ryker's
Madball



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 4,2009 7:31pm
Okay, so rather than go specifically by bands, I'll list some labels that I think put out some great stuff by great bands.

http://www.myspace.com/nowayrecordshc
No Way Records out of Richmond, VA. Puts out a lot of very old school sounding releases by bands like Direct Control, Government Warning, Double Negative, Cardiac Arrest, Wasted Time, Life Trap, etc.

http://www.myspace.com/sixdub
Six Weeks Records, from the Bay Area of CA. Focuses a lot more on international acts and bands that kick the speed up a notch, maybe go into the depths of grind. They also released the LP Municipal Waste made before signing to Earache. Sticking more to the hardcore side, I'd say go with Capitalist Casualties, Hellnation, Voetsek, SMD, Charles Bronson, Voorhees, and Slight Slappers(from just looking at the top friends anyway).

http://www.625thrash.com
625 Thrash also from the Bay Area of CA. This is another dude who likes it fast as fuck and will also release a lot of international grind but tends to focus on bands just starting out or bands that seem to be overlooked instead of putting out records by bands that have established themselves somewhat already. Of the new stuff I see he's putting out, I'd take a look into Hatred Surge, Discarga, and SFN for sure, and if you want some grind, Max has released pretty much the entire Insect Warfare discography and they blow the crap out of pretty much anything else in modern day.

http://www.myspace.com/cowabungarex
Cowabunga Records, it says on his page he lives in California, I guess I don't know where though. This guy has put out releases by my two favorite bands right now, Weekend Nachos(very evil) and Hummingbird of Death(one of the fastest bands to ever exist). Aside from that he's put out some Funeral Shock and ANS which are pretty damn good bands, more on the punk rock side than hardcore but it all jams.

And a great way to find out about new bands...
http://www.myspace.com/thisisforyoufest
This Is For You Fest, they have this the last weekend of the year, usually it's in Daytona Beach but in 2008 they decided to have it in Orlando. Some of the bands are more modern sounding, some of them are older sounding. The lineup doesn't seem to change drastically throughout the years but there are plenty of bands playing different styles. In addition to anything that's been said already in this post, from the lineup this year I'd recommend checking out Coke Bust(started out a bit older sounding but has gone more to the fastcore side, has Chris from Magrudergrind on drums), Seasick(old sounding, kind of surfy I suppose), Shitstorm(punk grind from Miami), Mehkago NT(consists of a lot of the Shitstorm guys, sounds crustier), I Hate This(fastcore type stuff, female fronted), and Control De Estado(lyrics in Spanish). Since you seem to be into modern stuff more so than a lot of the stuff I prefer to listen to, I'd say check out Mammoth Grinder, Surroundings, and Learn Nothing.



toggletoggle post by corpus_colostomy at Jan 4,2009 7:55pm
MillenialKingdom said[orig][quote]
I've heard of probably 65% of the bands you guys listed, like Biohazard, D.R.I., Agnostic Front, Terror, 100 Demons, etc. Those are the big names. I'm looking for more obscure stuff, I guess.


so jaded, so hessian...his thirst is unquenching for the "real."

LOL.



toggletoggle post by MarkFuckingRichards  at Jan 4,2009 7:58pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
Okay, so rather than go specifically by bands, I'll list some labels that I think put out some great stuff by great bands.

http://www.myspace.com/nowayrecordshc
No Way Records out of Richmond, VA. Puts out a lot of very old school sounding releases by bands like Direct Control, Government Warning, Double Negative, Cardiac Arrest, Wasted Time, Life Trap, etc.

http://www.myspace.com/sixdub
Six Weeks Records, from the Bay Area of CA. Focuses a lot more on international acts and bands that kick the speed up a notch, maybe go into the depths of grind. They also released the LP Municipal Waste made before signing to Earache. Sticking more to the hardcore side, I'd say go with Capitalist Casualties, Hellnation, Voetsek, SMD, Charles Bronson, Voorhees, and Slight Slappers(from just looking at the top friends anyway).

http://www.625thrash.com
625 Thrash also from the Bay Area of CA. This is another dude who likes it fast as fuck and will also release a lot of international grind but tends to focus on bands just starting out or bands that seem to be overlooked instead of putting out records by bands that have established themselves somewhat already. Of the new stuff I see he's putting out, I'd take a look into Hatred Surge, Discarga, and SFN for sure, and if you want some grind, Max has released pretty much the entire Insect Warfare discography and they blow the crap out of pretty much anything else in modern day.

http://www.myspace.com/cowabungarex
Cowabunga Records, it says on his page he lives in California, I guess I don't know where though. This guy has put out releases by my two favorite bands right now, Weekend Nachos(very evil) and Hummingbird of Death(one of the fastest bands to ever exist). Aside from that he's put out some Funeral Shock and ANS which are pretty damn good bands, more on the punk rock side than hardcore but it all jams.

And a great way to find out about new bands...
http://www.myspace.com/thisisforyoufest
This Is For You Fest, they have this the last weekend of the year, usually it's in Daytona Beach but in 2008 they decided to have it in Orlando. Some of the bands are more modern sounding, some of them are older sounding. The lineup doesn't seem to change drastically throughout the years but there are plenty of bands playing different styles. In addition to anything that's been said already in this post, from the lineup this year I'd recommend checking out Coke Bust(started out a bit older sounding but has gone more to the fastcore side, has Chris from Magrudergrind on drums), Seasick(old sounding, kind of surfy I suppose), Shitstorm(punk grind from Miami), Mehkago NT(consists of a lot of the Shitstorm guys, sounds crustier), I Hate This(fastcore type stuff, female fronted), and Control De Estado(lyrics in Spanish). Since you seem to be into modern stuff more so than a lot of the stuff I prefer to listen to, I'd say check out Mammoth Grinder, Surroundings, and Learn Nothing.


Excellent advice through and through. Most of those bands I can never figure out exactly how to categorize, even though that doesn't really matter too much.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 4,2009 8:06pm edited Jan 4,2009 8:10pm
That is what the term "thrashcore" was invented for.

Basically, since the word hardcore has been stolen by people who have nothing to do with the punk scene, people are referring to hardcore punk simply as "thrash". But to not confuse themselves with the metal scene, the core suffix was added to it and voila.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 4,2009 9:04pm
AndrewBastard said[orig][quote]
Youth of Today is a good call but really, you're download 25TL? They are awful.


I didn't like the vocals mostly.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 4,2009 9:07pm
Thanks a lot, Lamp.



toggletoggle post by BOBDEAD at Jan 4,2009 10:52pm
"hardcore" has alot of subgenres in it just like metal...
bands that I think kick ass past and present: Los Crudos,
Health Hazard,Crossed Out,Totalitar,World Burns to death,
Ruidosa Inmundicia,Nuclear Death Terror,Disrupt,Infest,
SS Decontrol,Gauze,Guided Cradle,early D.R.I., the Gaia,
Appalachian Terror Unit,Avskum,Diskonto,B.G.K.,Ristetyt,
Look back and laugh,Artimus Pyle,State of fear,RawPower,
the Wretched,Tragedy,Romantic Gorilla,Skitsystem,Discharge,
D.S.B,Rattus,Siege,Icons of Filth,Seein Red,9 shocks terror,
Hellnation,Perth Express,Rupture,No Security,Rudimentary Peni,
fuck dude..i could go on for days...



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 4,2009 10:55pm
That post right there was pretty much the direction I was hoping to see this thread take.



toggletoggle post by c.DeAD at Jan 5,2009 8:46am
Rorschach, Deadguy.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 5,2009 11:21am
old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore"
is real hardcore.
this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm.....
it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal.

just my opinion



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 12:32pm
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore"
is real hardcore.
this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm.....
it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal.

just my opinion


When I think of bands who have beatdown parts that you describe as "wigger slam", I think of Bulldoze, Cease 2 Exist, Billy Club Sandwich, Shattered Realm. All bands that are or were sick.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Jan 5,2009 1:02pm
Conservationist said[orig][quote]
Discharge
Amebix
The Exploited
Cro-mags
Minor Threat


And Neurosis




toggletoggle post by c.DeAD at Jan 5,2009 1:19pm
Ah, "Pain of Mind", awesome hardcore record. Big influence.



toggletoggle post by joeyumbrella  at Jan 5,2009 1:37pm
seems everyone is biased to their "type of core"

to say earth crisis wasn't hardcore, and is "wiggercore" is gay (complete offense intended... LOVE YOU ORGY!!!!!!!)

forced march/firestorm was awesome fucking hardcore



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 5,2009 2:01pm
joeyumbrella said[orig][quote]
seems everyone is biased to their "type of core"

to say earth crisis wasn't hardcore, and is "wiggercore" is gay (complete offense intended... LOVE YOU ORGY!!!!!!!)

forced march/firestorm was awesome fucking hardcore


you weren't calling me gay when i was raping you bitch!

did you ever clean that spot off the sheets?

i dunno man...it's just my opinion.....disagree with it as strongly as you would like, but to me earth crisis fits that description of "toughguy/wiggerslam/floorpunch" which to me never was (and never will be) hardcore.

doesn't mean there is anything wrong with enjoying it.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 5,2009 2:05pm
MikeofDecrepitude said[orig][quote]
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore"
is real hardcore.
this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm.....
it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal.

just my opinion


When I think of bands who have beatdown parts that you describe as "wigger slam", I think of Bulldoze, Cease 2 Exist, Billy Club Sandwich, Shattered Realm. All bands that are or were sick.


thay may be sick....that's fine
you may enjoy them....that's fine.

but the basic point is if there are slam/mosh/beatdown parts...it is not true to what hardcore originally was, hardcore was just a harsher, angrier (and sometimes faster) form of punk.

Misfits, Minor Threat = hardcore
Romantic Gorilla, Spazz = fast hardcore/crust

heavy/tough guy/beatdown = watered down version of slow death metal minus the growling, played by gang members (and/or wannabe gang members) in baggy clothing and sports jerseys.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Jan 5,2009 2:10pm
Um, excuse me everyone. Hardcore died 25 years ago when such influential bands as Flipper, and the Minutemen broke up. All music came to an end. Ian Mackaye and Moby both said so.



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Jan 5,2009 2:12pm
i read "fast hardcore" as "fartcore."

i need a blumpkin.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Jan 5,2009 2:15pm
corpus_colostomy said[orig][quote]

terror st (many thanks to XmikeX)




Terror Ave. Not Terror Street. Turn in your dunks. Lazer remove your gang tats. You're fired.



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 2:33pm edited Jan 5,2009 2:42pm
>>

thay may be sick....that's fine
you may enjoy them....that's fine.

but the basic point is if there are slam/mosh/beatdown parts...it is not true to what hardcore originally was, hardcore was just a harsher, angrier (and sometimes faster) form of punk.

Misfits, Minor Threat = hardcore
Romantic Gorilla, Spazz = fast hardcore/crust

heavy/tough guy/beatdown = watered down version of slow death metal minus the growling, played by gang members (and/or wannabe gang members) in baggy clothing and sports jerseys.>>

There can't be a variation on a theme? I should make mention that while sparse, you can find growling on All Out War's TitAoL and Shattered Realm also used to have a DM influenced vocalist. I can't really agree with your opinion that it's watered down "slow death metal", because aside from slams, beatdown riffs, or whatever your fancy; there's no other death metal riffs, vocals, or imagery to these bands. I mean, Shattered Realm had a vocalist who used to growl, but they had more parts that reminded me of Slayer, as opposed to Death Metal. Real metal influenced hxc has produced some pretty cool bands, and by blurring those lines, it allowed people to recognize merits in both genre's and to not be so biased towards one or the other.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Jan 5,2009 2:45pm
I back Conservationist's post approximately 1000% (which is a surreal experience, I can assure you). BobDead and Lamp covered the remainder, I'd say.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 5,2009 2:50pm
variation on a theme??
listen, it's just a different style of music.
you guys disagree with me until you are blue in the face.
but grindcore, and hardcore, are punk rooted.
if you hear no trace of punk in the guitar sound.
it is not grind or hardcore.

that is definitive.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 5,2009 2:52pm
i am not saying there is anything wrong with enjoying that floorpuncher/victory records/beat down shit....but it ain't hardcore.

calling that stuff hardcore, is like saying emo is punk, screamo is metal and whitebelt is grind....

all incorrect.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Jan 5,2009 3:00pm
Total super-backed.



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 3:00pm
But the bands I mentioned do have those riffs you're referring to.....



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 3:01pm
Wait screamo is a real genre? And what is whitebelt? That's new to me.



toggletoggle post by RustyPS  at Jan 5,2009 3:04pm
MikeofDecrepitude said[orig][quote]
Wait screamo is a real genre? And what is whitebelt? That's new to me.


Real screamo (at least to me) is stuff like Pg. 99, Orchid, and the like

no idea what whitebelt is....maybe something like See You Next Tuesday?



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Jan 5,2009 3:04pm
In the interest of doing my very best to stay out of a musical debate I'm going to mindlessly name off some bands that I'm enjoying this week.

Six Foot Ditch (UK)
Creepout (Japan)
Terror Zone
In My Eyes
Turmoil
Subzero
Most High Game (Japan)
Project X



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 3:13pm
I thought whitebelt had something to do with the initial belt you start off with in Karate.



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 3:16pm
Orgy, let me throw this one at you: If Marduk is nothing but blasting and Burzum's Filosofem is slow and blastless, which is the "true" black metal, and which is false?



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Jan 5,2009 3:22pm
If Abbath falls in the woods...



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Jan 5,2009 3:25pm
xmikex said[orig][quote]
If Abbath falls in the woods...
hahahaha



toggletoggle post by fags on wheeels at Jan 5,2009 4:08pm


the face of true hardcore.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Jan 5,2009 4:21pm
Mike of D: Not that you asked me, but I'd say they were both black metal bands - since black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects, and both styles fit under that umbrella. Hardcore, on the other hand, is a specific subgenre of punk, defined mainly by being raw and fast (as opposed to the art-school stuff that was prevalent towards the end of the 70s). It's the "raw and fast (punk)" that makes it hardcore; otherwise you've got hold of something else, there.



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Jan 5,2009 4:27pm
Maybe I missed it, but nobody mentioned Killing Time (used to be Raw Deal, then had to change their name). One of my all time faves.



toggletoggle post by grizloch   at Jan 5,2009 6:29pm
if "true" hardcore is rooted in punk (hence "hardcore punk"), then why cant "tough guy" and the like be rooted in hardcore (just "hardcore," -punk)?

not so much variation, but evolution

its a semantics argument for sure, and frankly I don't care one way or the other, I like what I like which, like everyone else, isn't defined by genre, but I wish more people would go back to calling "metallic hardcore" (not so much metalcore) crossover, it seems easier that way

no offense to anyone, but the people who get really hung up on genres tend to be the types who care too much what other people think of their musical tastes, that person wouldnt want someone who thinks borkencyde or fall out boy is hardcore to associates them with liking hardcore

I still think metal fans are way more uptight about genres than hardcore kids, but I love both the music and the fans just the same

why can't we all just get along



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 5,2009 6:32pm
where does backstabbers inc fit into this?



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 5,2009 6:36pm
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore"
is real hardcore.
this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm.....
it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal.

just my opinion


I was gonna say something along these lines but really didn't feel like opening a can of worms.

Seeing shit like Trash Talk and other trendy 15-minute bands in this thread makes me a sad panda.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 5,2009 6:36pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
where does backstabbers inc fit into this?


Hardest band to categorize...ever...



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Jan 5,2009 6:48pm
good, I'm not the only one who thinks that.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 5,2009 6:52pm
That band, along with SOD's Bigger Than The Devil have blended so many genres that they don't really fit anywhere. Crossover punk grind thrash hardcore?



toggletoggle post by RustyPS  at Jan 5,2009 7:48pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
Seeing shit like Trash Talk and other trendy 15-minute bands in this thread makes me a sad panda.
Trendy or not, I find Trash Talk quite enjoyable.



toggletoggle post by mikeofdecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 8:33pm
I mean, if Hardcore is a faster version of punk, then what is Grindcore? Grindcore is simply detuned, fast punk riffs, scream/growl trade off's, and blasting.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 5,2009 8:39pm
Grindcore is a seamless fusion of extreme metal and hardcore punk.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 5,2009 8:40pm
By the way, that question adds nothing to your point either since grindcore is recognized as a separate genre rather than being lumped in as hardcore.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 5,2009 9:33pm
Grindcore is awesome d00d.



toggletoggle post by mikeofdecrepitude at Jan 5,2009 9:53pm
I was making a point in referencing grindcore? I thought I was just asking a question and giving my definition of what Grind is. I've always considered grind and hxc to be separate genre's, with punk being the root source for grind and early hxc. It was said that hxc is faster, more pissed off punk, and the same definition can be applied to grind.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Jan 5,2009 10:46pm
DestroyYouAlot said[orig][quote]
black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects


Finally someone hit the nerve of the argument, but you're headed in the wrong direction. Hardcore was a bi-product of 77 punk, etc. but it's very much defined by an ethos much like black metal.

It's the only rationale for why nerds who collect burzum records are exactly as queer as nerds who collect black flag records.



toggletoggle post by joeyumbrella  at Jan 6,2009 1:06am
is it already "not cool" to like trash talk? is it just because they are on deathwish, or because people have heard of them?



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 6,2009 1:09am
As soon as one person hears your band you are a sellout piece of living shit.

I've never heard them but cool guys with attractive girlfriends like them so fuck that.



toggletoggle post by ArilliusBM  at Jan 6,2009 1:26am
fuck that, let's list some blackcore bands... or hardmetal bands



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 6,2009 6:12am
mikeofdecrepitude said[orig][quote]
I was making a point in referencing grindcore? I thought I was just asking a question and giving my definition of what Grind is. I've always considered grind and hxc to be separate genre's, with punk being the root source for grind and early hxc. It was said that hxc is faster, more pissed off punk, and the same definition can be applied to grind.


Don't say "hxc", it's just "hc" if you're going to refer to it shorthand. Only idiots refer to it as "hxc".



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney at Jan 6,2009 6:44am
That's the same reason why I stopped calling it BMX, can't talk now motherfuckers I gotta train for the bowel movement race this weekend.



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 6,2009 8:01am
Haha, I love this fascist attitude towards defining what is or isn't HXC. Now I'm labeled an idiot for abbreviating HXC the way I always have? Cool, man. People claim Black Metal fans are elitist? This is the same exact thing. I mean, I wouldn't go as far as to call this an argument; at least for me, this is a musical debate. So consensus among some is that HXC is solely defined by sped up punk riffs and d-beat. So a band like Bulldoze isn't hardcore because they inject slower riffs into their songs, even though they still fit the criteria for hardcore. Besides, those slower riffs are a part of the NYHC sound. Now excuse me, I need to go catch up on my genre terminology, because I wouldn't want internet forum user's to think I'm an idiot, oh heavens no.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 6,2009 9:29am
ok....there is way too much too respond to since i was last online.

i can agree that this shit that people refer to as hardcore is rooted in hardcore (at least the bands who still use punk riffs in their music)...but that doesn't make it hardcore.

saying a band that uses a small element of hardcore, (but plays something completely different) is still hardcore, is like throwing tootsie rolls and candy corn in some mashed potatoes and calling it shepards pie.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 6,2009 9:30am
i know, i know, leave it to the fat fuck to use a food reference in a music arguement.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 6,2009 9:36am
grizloch said[orig][quote]

no offense to anyone, but the people who get really hung up on genres tend to be the types who care too much what other people think of their musical tastes, that person wouldnt want someone who thinks borkencyde or fall out boy is hardcore to associates them with liking hardcore


it's not that i care what others think of my musical taste....so much as it gets annoying to have to explain shit to people.

i can't stand when someone asks if i dig hardcore, i say yes, and they start rattling off victory records nonsense...

it especially annoys me when dealing with younger people who seem to think genres change just because they say so.
my girlfriends 19 year old cousin started babbling about how he "loves punk rock"
which lead me and my girl and her brother to start babbling about the Sex Pistols, Crass, Meatmen, Screeching Weasel etc.
and this douche says "that isn't punk anymore....i meant GOOD bands, like AFI and Thursday"

i wanted to saw his head off



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 6,2009 9:40am
MikeofDecrepitude said[orig][quote]
Orgy, let me throw this one at you: If Marduk is nothing but blasting and Burzum's Filosofem is slow and blastless, which is the "true" black metal, and which is false?


i'll be honest with you
i hate black metal, and know very little about it.
but i know that the few BM fans i hang out with hate CoF being called Black Metal, just as i hate floorpuncher bands being referred to as hardcore.....
which is why i used that example



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 6,2009 9:42am
I think we can both agree that shepherd's pie is pretty amazing.



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Jan 6,2009 9:42am
xmikex said[orig][quote]
DestroyYouAlot said[orig][quote]
black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects


Finally someone hit the nerve of the argument, but you're headed in the wrong direction. Hardcore was a bi-product of 77 punk, etc. but it's very much defined by an ethos much like black metal.

It's the only rationale for why nerds who collect burzum records are exactly as queer as nerds who collect black flag records.


they are queer nerds because both band names start with B.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Jan 6,2009 9:48am
if you guys want to find some elitist people, let's talk about the deadheads who collect all the dead's bootlegs and then argue for hours about stuff like that



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Jan 6,2009 9:50am
LOL @ Orgy ... xmikex, I actually agree with you 100%, but I was just trying to make the point that hardcore was/is defined as much by its speed as it is by its connection to punk ideas, where black metal, as a genre, is a little more "elastic" in what it can encompass, musically. Also, if I collect Burzum records AND Black Flag records, does the nerdiness add or multiply? *snort*



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 6,2009 10:00am
Nothing wrong with collecting recordings of your favorite bands, whether it's metal or hippie music. I don't get down with Jerry Garcia but you'll find Varg Vikernes music in my record collection. Also nothing wrong with debating, until people want to get red-assed and cut others down because their opinions differ. Opinionated facts: You know I love 'em.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Jan 6,2009 10:05am
Who "collects" Burzum records? They're not exactly the hardest things to find; that is, unless you're looking for certain presses.
If you're into black metal and want to "collect" albums, I'd suggest doing some stuff that's a little rare and hard to find. But then again, I know nothing of this subject matter and only listen to A Flock Of Seagulls.



toggletoggle post by MikeofDecrepitude at Jan 6,2009 10:10am
I dunno, maybe people just want their favorite albums on vinyl? I don't know if there are people out there who scheme in dark rooms to obtain Burzum albums at all costs, but then again he's pretty militant himself.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Jan 6,2009 10:14am
If you want to look at a band that people kill eachother over (and I never really understood why), then Moonblood would be that band.



toggletoggle post by joeyumbrella  at Jan 6,2009 10:17am
i hate humans, thanks rttp!



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Jan 6,2009 10:39am
MikeofDecrepitude said[orig][quote]
I think we can both agree that shepherd's pie is pretty amazing.


indeed it is sir, indeed it is



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Jan 6,2009 10:43am
i'm never leaving my house again.



toggletoggle post by grizloch   at Jan 6,2009 4:47pm
[Jan 6,2009 9:36am - orgymf@work ]

grizloch said:
no offense to anyone, but the people who get really hung up on genres tend to be the types who care too much what other people think of their musical tastes, that person wouldnt want someone who thinks borkencyde or fall out boy is hardcore to associates them with liking hardcore



it's not that i care what others think of my musical taste....so much as it gets annoying to have to explain shit to people.

i can't stand when someone asks if i dig hardcore, i say yes, and they start rattling off victory records nonsense...

it especially annoys me when dealing with younger people who seem to think genres change just because they say so.
my girlfriends 19 year old cousin started babbling about how he "loves punk rock"
which lead me and my girl and her brother to start babbling about the Sex Pistols, Crass, Meatmen, Screeching Weasel etc.
and this douche says "that isn't punk anymore....i meant GOOD bands, like AFI and Thursday"

i wanted to saw his head off


I can agree with this 1000000%, but I like a TON of admittedly awful music, including a bunch of toughguy bands and older faster hardcore, and metalcore, so I'm usually covered in that regard, as for people calling stuff like afi and thursday being punk, well that does drive me crazy, but it's a subgenre of punk, poppunk or post punk is still punk, and lazy people who use verbal shorthand call it punk, but when ten year olds think that its the same as the sex pistols because they dont know better, well that shit's wack, but it still (barely) beats listening to little wayne or hannah montana or whatever pop bands are big right now, so I give them a break

thats me though



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 6,2009 6:20pm
I downloaded some Black Flag but I didn't like it at all. Punk is just not my thing.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Jan 6,2009 6:30pm
John Joseph just called me and said he prefer if CTB didn't ever listen to "Age of Quarrel".

Ever



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 6,2009 9:26pm
MillenialKingdom said[orig][quote]
I downloaded some Black Flag but I didn't like it at all. Punk is just not my thing.


If punk isn't your thing then starting this thread was probably a bad idea.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 6,2009 9:34pm
Yeah, I would appreciate it if CTB stayed away from all hardcore music. If this makes you hate me and my band then I'll deal.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Jan 6,2009 10:11pm
DestroyYouAlot said[orig][quote]
since black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects


Isn't this true of all music that doesn't fit the "rock format with variations" idea?

Death metal is defined by an ethos. So's black metal. To some degree, so is heavy metal... but less.

I agree with the fellow who said the same thing is true of hardcore. It is a philosophy that leads to the music sounding a certain way, and you cannot reverse the causality of that equation.

Unless you want to taste daddy's dick like all nu-metal bands, Opeth, mac users, etc.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 6,2009 10:51pm
RichHorror said[orig][quote]
Yeah, I would appreciate it if CTB stayed away from all hardcore music. If this makes you hate me and my band then I'll deal.


I don't think you have anything to worry about looking at what he likes and doesn't like.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 7,2009 12:12am
Do you guys have a clue at all about what I like? You think just because I went to an Acacia Strain show that automatically makes me a terrible music fan? Get over yourself.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 7,2009 12:16am
I like what I like and I don't give a fuck if you don't.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Jan 7,2009 12:41am
MillenialKingdom said[orig][quote]
I downloaded some Black Flag but I didn't like it at all. Punk is just not my thing.


WOW, that should end any argument in this thread.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 7,2009 12:58am
I downloaded "The First Four Years" album.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Jan 7,2009 1:02am
Download "Damaged". If you don't like it, consider your douche papers signed, stamped and notarized.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 7,2009 1:04am
Alright then.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 7,2009 1:09am
Ryan, you think Damaged is better than The First Four Years? Make some douche papers out for yourself as well.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Jan 7,2009 1:23am
RichHorror said[orig][quote]
Ryan, you think Damaged is better than The First Four Years? Make some douche papers out for yourself as well.


Damaged Vs. The First Four Years will start up about another 500 dumb posts.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 7,2009 1:31am
I do what I can.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Jan 7,2009 1:33am
Got to keep the retard machine rollin



toggletoggle post by inject-now at Jan 7,2009 7:41am
RichHorror said[orig][quote]
Ryan, you think Damaged is better than The First Four Years? Make some douche papers out for yourself as well.


Damaged kills First Four Years. So does My War, Slip It In, Loose Nut, and In My Head. Let's fight.



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Jan 7,2009 8:52am edited Jan 7,2009 12:51pm
I am not getting into this argument. But here's a list of good and real hardcore/punk records (hardcore started to suck when they stopped calling it hardcore/punk. hardcore without the punk = wigger shit)
Maybe some of these records will open a certain christian dumbass' eyes a little.

First, start here.
bad brains - ROIR Sessions (do they still call it that? Its the one with the Capitol building getting struck by lightening on the cover)

Then:
Boston scene
Jerrys Kids - Is This My World
F.U.'s - My America
Negative FX - s/t
SSD - Get It Away
also get the This Is Boston Not L.A. comp. The Gang Green tracks alone are worth it.

Boston had the best bands on the east coast (imo) but you should also check out
Minor Threat - Complete Discography CD
C.O.C. - Eye For An Eye
Agnostic Front - United Blood ep (Long out of print but there's a CD called Raw Unleashed which has that ep and a bunch of their demo tracks. Rules)
Agnotic Front - Victim in Pain
Meatmen - Crippled Children Suck (only available now on that Touch and Go Years CD)

West Coast:
FEAR - The Record
Dead Kennedys - get the CD that has both Plastic Surgery Disasters and In God We Trust Inc. on it. Actually you can't go wrong with anything by DKs.
D.R.I. - Dirty Rotten LP
Suicidal Tendencies - s/t
M.D.C. - Millions of Dead Cops (the CD version also has More Dead Cops, a collection of all their 7 inches. Awesome shit)
Circle Jerks - the CD that has both Group Sex and Wild In The Streets
(if you didn't like Black Flag's First 4 Years, I bet Group Sex is more what you were looking for)

U.K.
Exploited - Troops of Tomorrow
Chaos UK - Short Sharp Shock

I kept this to the "golden age" of hardcore, '81-'84. I'm sure I forgot a bunch of great stuff but that's enough to start with.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Jan 7,2009 11:58am
Fight me, Rich.

But not just any fight. Let's re-enact the steam room fight scene in Eastern Promises.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 7,2009 3:26pm edited Jan 7,2009 3:59pm
I'll fight both of you.

I like The First Four Years better than Damaged, but like pretty much all other Rollins Black Flag era stuff to The First Four Years.



toggletoggle post by rickp at Jan 7,2009 3:45pm
some good local stuff,third death,dropdead,getkilled,st.jude,scapegoat,rampant decay,straight to hell,neon bitches,neoprofits,all those opposed,verse.disaster strikes,toxic
narcotic,morne,hulkout,mouth sewn shut .



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Jan 7,2009 3:54pm
For locals Fast Death, Fruit Salad, Mind Eraser, The Rival Mob, Dead Black, Nothing But Enemies and Ape Shit are all awesome too.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Jan 7,2009 4:08pm
Fearless Iranians FTW



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Jan 7,2009 4:36pm
MillenialKingdom said[orig][quote]
You think just because I went to an Acacia Strain show that automatically makes me a terrible music fan?


Yup.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Jan 7,2009 4:40pm
haha, everyone rips on this dude all the time.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Jan 7,2009 4:42pm
Mind Eraser and Dead Black are great.



toggletoggle post by Ryan_M at Jan 8,2009 12:16am
Don't know if anyone already mentioned Broken Bones, but I would recommend their "Dem Bones + Decapitated: 1983-1986" CD to anyone interested in hardcore punk.



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Jan 8,2009 9:31am
Ryan_M said[orig][quote]
Don't know if anyone already mentioned Broken Bones, but I would recommend their "Dem Bones + Decapitated: 1983-1986" CD to anyone interested in hardcore punk.


Yes. And that reminds me, I am a total idiot for forgetting to put Discharge on my list above. Discharge is essential. Get Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing and Why (comp. of 1st 4 EPs)

Also G.B.H. Get City Baby Attacked by Rats and City Baby's Revenge. Actually I think there's a CD version with both of those albums on one CD.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 8,2009 11:58am
Thanks for the lists, people. I know most of the bands you guys listed but now I know which of those albums to start with.



toggletoggle post by Ryan_M at Jan 10,2009 11:32pm
Here's another pretty important hardcore release; some say it is the first true hardcore record: Middle Class - Out Of Vogue e.p. Pretty fucking fast shit for 1978!
Download the songs here:
http://www.7inchpunk.com/?p=151



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 11,2009 1:08am
Thanks.



toggletoggle post by Seth at Jan 11,2009 3:20am
Mad Ball, Sick of it all, Cro-Mags,Agnostic Front, Ludachrist



toggletoggle post by Lamp nli at Jan 11,2009 11:20am
Ryan_M said[orig][quote]
Here's another pretty important hardcore release; some say it is the first true hardcore record: Middle Class - Out Of Vogue e.p. Pretty fucking fast shit for 1978!
Download the songs here:
http://www.7inchpunk.com/?p=151


Great choice, but it's a waste of a recommendation on this non-punk liking douche. The guy was looking for all the wigger slam bands.



toggletoggle post by frankie chairs at Jan 11,2009 12:57pm
Some really good under-rated bands:

Strength for a reason
Taken by force
Mushmouth
No retreat
Nourish the flame
Billyclub sandwich
E.g.h.
Killing time



toggletoggle post by frankie chairs at Jan 11,2009 1:01pm
Irate
Stigmata
Swear to god
Denied



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 11,2009 1:30pm
Lamp%20nli said[orig][quote]
Ryan_M said[orig][quote]
Here's another pretty important hardcore release; some say it is the first true hardcore record: Middle Class - Out Of Vogue e.p. Pretty fucking fast shit for 1978!
Download the songs here:
http://www.7inchpunk.com/?p=151


Great choice, but it's a waste of a recommendation on this non-punk liking douche. The guy was looking for all the wigger slam bands.


No, I'm not.



toggletoggle post by MillenialKingdom  at Jan 11,2009 1:51pm
So far I've downloaded:

Black Flag - First Four Years (Didn't like too much), Damaged (was good)
Minor Threat - Complete Discography album
Youth of Today - Break Down The Walls and Can't Close My Eyes
25 Ta Life - Friendship, Loyalty, Commitment
Cruel Hand - Prying Eyes and Without A Pulse
Jesus Wept - Sick City and Show's Over
Integrity - Those Who Fear Tomorrow
Overcome - Immortal Until Their Work Is Done and More Than Death
Merauder - Master Killer
Bad Brains - Black Dots
Judge - Bringin' It Down
Negative Approach - Tied Down
Death Threat - God and Government
Amebix - Arise and The Power Remains
Discharge - Vision of War
Extreme Noise Terror - Holocaust In Your Head and Being And Nothing
Poison Idea - Blank, Blackout, Vacant and Feel The Darkness
Siege - Drop Dead
The Crucified - The Pillars of Humanity



toggletoggle post by Mess at Jan 11,2009 1:56pm
yeah, it's been said before but i dig INTEGRITY a lot
Jerry's Kids is a must also
Siege is something i would consider one of the founders in the hardcore/grind realm. that is a must have album.
Negative FX is another good one.

i dunno? most of these bands were probably already mentioned but i don't know what i'd do if i didn't own these albums.



toggletoggle post by Mess at Jan 11,2009 2:01pm
Weymouth / Braintree
Reprefuckinsent!



toggletoggle post by gordito at Jan 11,2009 5:39pm
seige,crossedout,infest,no comment,capitalistcasualties,lack of interest,spazz,dropdead,hellnation,yacopsae,ganggreen!



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