Stupid Rebulicrats didn't filibuster...now I have to seriously think about which country I'm going to relocate to because I'm not staying in a place where rich white men think they can decide the rights I have over my body.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/31540/

rich white men's rights over yur body... isn't that how you paid for college?

humm...kinda, student loans are sort of a way of getting fucked...

as much as i love the US and living here (land of opportunity) makes me glad I'm not American

canadian politics aren't better...
paul martin and his corruption scandals. and now, just like in the US, the conservative religious party is in power.
same with germany now.

there is no save haven from shitty politicians.. unless you move to sri lanka and then you have to deal with all the shitty retired politicians that go there to do the things they legislate us not to do here, mostly fucking little boys.

I am glad I am American.

so? italian politics are even worse

i think it's funny how i live here and yet can't vote here, or in europe or in canada
oh and i went to one of the top rated colleges/universities and it was a few thousand dollars, at least canada has that

italian politics are funny cause there is a porn star in the house.

youre not a citizen succubus? where are you from initially?

I have Canadian and Italian (European) citizenship.
I was born in Montreal and then my family moved back to Italy, so I was educated in Italy and then ended my later years back in Canada.

I know it sucks pretty much everywhere now, but since I happen to have been born here, and I'm currently suck here, I'm a bit more pissed about having to deal with this bullshit. It's not like I want to move, I just want things to be very different because it's getting so bad here it's absurd. There are too many people, things are too complicated, and the ones in charge are driving the ship into the ground with all of us on it. Yeah, Canada is fucked now, I feel sorry for them, but we don't even have fucking healthcare which is a basic human right.

sick! I have canadian citizenship too. My mother is canadian and my father peruvian. I was born here but I lived in canada for a couple years.

"and I'm currently suck here,"
heh

and healthcare is not a basic human right. go back to russia pinko.

you say that like you're surprised life has the potential to suck

healthcare is a paid service. saying it's basic human right is like saying wendy's is a basic human right cause it's food.

the_reverend said:

agreed.

but im sure we can all agree that the idea of health insurance is pretty fuckin weak

"what's that? no insurance? well we can either not treat you or you can cough up $10,000...your choice"

I am a duel citizen of the US and Canada.

that's why they offer free healthcare to anyone that can cross the boarder right? and how much do they offer for schooling? i was borne in this country and can hardly afford rent and they tell me i'm not eligible for free care? i'll shut up now.

cool soloman!
Where did you used to live in Canada?

and to everyone else: socialized health care sucks

you get SHITTY service a lot of the time...

and if you didn't know.. they tax your paycheck 40% and if you do a lot of overtime you can get taxed up to 60%..yes it's true

so i look at it this way..i work here and i pay for health care out of my paycheck and i pay LESS than i did in canada..granted, in canada i was paying for EVERYONE's healthcare..

don't even get me startd on europe...

i have had family pass away and i know that if we lived in the US I'd still have my dad today

the_reverend said:

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 25
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

wish more people would pay attention to this, the U.S. signed it in December 1948...but like every other U.S. treaty that becomes inconvenient, it's broken repeatedly.

http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm

i lived very briefly in Ontario... a little while in Bellville, and then also in Renfrew and Ferguslee (i believe is the spelling). This was back when i was like 3 and 4 years old. I was actually born here, so I have duel citizen ship.

there is health without healthcare. and in the end there is no such thing as FREE healthcare. someone has to pay for it.

but I do think that in a perfect society when it hits a certian level, that healthcare and other technologies get added into the society as things that are just a give. so just like you can count on the government making sure that there are roads for you to be able to travel on, I think that on day in a society when it gets to a certain level that will. this is just like I think that at some point, electrical/heat/internet will be control (much like town water is) at some point. will this happen in america? I don't think so, at least not the america that we live in. We missed that mark already.

I'm fairly certain that the good old USA is on a downward slide so in 50-100 years, we will be like the greatest empire on earth, Britain, is today and will will back up our bwothews as wong as we get mowa pok fwied wice.

Yesterday was my 90th day at Walgreens, so now I am eligible for health care!
I just need to read all this shit.

ha, this country had free universal healthcare before white people got here...there was no money, no economy, and people wouldn't dream of denying eachother medicine or care, which grew right in your backyard...ahhh, the good old days. we fuckin' suck, I'm gonna go live in the woods

getting healthcare coverage at my job is freakin sweet. But I always see it as a luxury that i'm freakin fortunate to have. It's not my right as a human being.

this country didnt exist before white people came here, and who cares how indians use to live in the 13th century

HailTheLeaf said:


What the hell?

Yeah penicillan and aspirin grew in abundance across every native american's backyard. Lets go back to those days. Whitey sure fucked that one up.

Joe/NotCommon said:

I care because they lived sustainably, were independent, and actually took care of one another instead of trampling eachother for monetary gain. White people got here and starved with their technology. Unfortunately the natives gave them food (but would the whites have returned the favor?) and now this place is a giant cesspool.

yeah, but their average age was like what, 35? I'd best do some travelling.. I'm almost there.

What a crock of fuckin shit! I cannot believe people think a Supreme Court Justice Nominee has to be an abortion racketeer to be considered qualified. What makes Ruth Bader Ginsberg so much more qualified than Alito?? Not only had she NO EXPERIENCE AS A JUDGE, she was an ex-Executive director of the ACLU. She is no more of a left winger than Alito a right winger. If the Republicans acted like sore losers in the manner in which the Dems are currently acting, Ginsberg would have NEVER been confirmed by the majority that she enjoyed. The Dems are pissed because they LOST twice in a row and missed this opportunity to nominate a Chief justice and an Associate Justice. Next time, pick another candidate, preferably one that has a chance in hell in winning, so you can have the shot to stack the courts with hardliners like Ginsberg.
Also, universal healthcare bankrupts the system. It is a fantasy and it will never happen, no matter how many times the American people put a Clinton in the White House

soloman said:

yeah, with prozac and viagra so your dick can get hard after you eat a big mac.

what if they find cold fussion healthcare or magical fairy dust.
man, that would be so hot.

HailTheLeaf said:



Yeah and natives didn't live in tribes that were very often at war with each other. Your picture of native american life is way too idealistic.

soloman said:

I never said they were perfect, no one has been, in all of history, but I think we could examine several aspects of their cultures to improve ours, which is really fucking sad at the moment.

everyone knows what it was like back then.

Hungta‘Bleed said:

It does not bankrupt the system, the problem with universal health care is that it used in places like Canada and Sweden were the population is far less and even then, there are long waiting lists for surgeries and this would never work in America

What needs to happen is Republicans need to stop supporting big business, and allowing health care providers jack up prices so they can line their pockets.

Fuck the Bush Administration

pocahantas was hot.

HailTheLeaf said:

Quincy is perfect.

slowlypeelingtheflesh said:

let's just get rid of all the fatties and smokers..ha! seriously though, we need to take the whole "business" part out of healthcare and government in general...then maybe our elected officals might actually start working for us.

Joe/NotCommon said:

ah, yes I forgot the cultural mecca that is Quincy, MA...hahaha

if we got rid of the fatties and the smokers, the good old US of A would be cut down to 250 people. most of which would be power-walkers in the mall.

the_reverend said:

now that's just scary...

yeah, and those girls breed like rabbits. they don't even need men!
well, at least that's what they tell themselves as they cry themselves to sleep after a long night watching everyone loves gayman, desparate house wives, and sex in the city.

everyone loves gayman
^^^
*smacks you upside the head this time

you may not like the show but it's nothing like the other 2 you mentioned which are similar..good lord think before you post

same lonely old audience for both.

I'm just happy I've never seen those shows..

Arrested Development is a great show.

Have you ever just sat around and sniffed a gym floor?

The solution is simple, raise minimum wages to actual living wage levels. This allows people currently on subsidized healthcare to afford their own care which reduces costs for the government and allows patients to recieve better care.

There are a shitload of programs that the majority of the working poor would no longer need with a living wage, saving the government even more money or allowing them to put more money toward the people, such as the elderly or disabled who really need the programs.

A living wage would lift working poor out of poverty allowing more of their income to be taxed (or allowing more tax cuts since there are fewer programs to support).

It also creates more jobs since one job would cover household expenses rather than people working two jobs to cover expenses.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH COMIN AGAIN TO SAVE THE MOTHERFUCKIN DAY YEAHHHH

Joe/NotCommon said:

I don't know if you were joking, probably not since you are Joe after all. But, I 100% agree with that statement.

the_reverend said:

No, but there are a lot of safe havens from shitty CHRISTIAN politicians.

The U.S is slowly becoming a theocracy. Unless something changes soon, America will be the new Iran by 2050.

The only thing more stupid than being a christian is voting for one.

well.. at least there is always the judicial system to keep church and state separate.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/alito/index.html

I wish we all had to wear banana hammocks.

we could always take a bit outta the military budget and spend it on health care, education, etc.
ya know, make some soldiers hold fund raisers and raffles for a few years

I like how you basically just re-worded the bumper sticker on 1/2 the mini-vans in mass.

the_reverend said:

Sadly, there's only one talking tree left and its name is Abe Vigoda

lol. minus the shitty poetic sentiment. i thought you'd be gratefull

as much as I don't like the problems here, I'd rather stay and do something about it, instead of running away. I'm a 21st century patriot.

well, it would be nice, but did I tell you that my other messageboard is a bicycle?

the_reverend said:

Right? Thank God for checks and balances.

Hungta‘Bleed said:

Well at least the ACLU fights to preserve the rights of every person here in America, rather than restricting and demolishing basic freedoms that many people desire and cherish.
I don't think it has much to do with being sore losers or whatever, those are just hasty generalizations that promote common fallacies that we've accepted to be true, part of the right's mentality. Partly this thinking came from Regan, who was a President that loved D.C. (the glitz and glamour of being the president) but hated the Government, subsequently creating a system of thinking that intends the interest of the people to be less important and empowering those in power with more power. Bush hates D.C. but loves the Government, he's crafty the way he's gone about his shit, it's just that several of his decisions will be effecting the country well into OUR senior years, unless a left wing president comes along and systematically dismantles everything Bush did just as he's done to Clinton.
Josh is right, we're heading towards a narrow minded system that restricts several basic freedoms, just like Iran. But whatever if people want that, then go ahead. I just think that this country should be all it can be, as opposed to, don't do that god is watching!

BornSoVile said:

but he is watching. thanks to the Patriot Act and illegal wiretaps

wire tapping is communist pinko observating at it's finest.

shut up, go to the mall, and buy stuff you hippy!

DomesticTerror said:



I already know that the only response anyone will provide is “it is unconstitutional,” but if wiretapping, checking phone records, library records, e-mails, etc. will most likely give us valuable information as to potential terrorist attacks on our soil, which will obviously kill many innocent Americans, why would any American be against these “searches”? It is a duty of the president of this country to keep Americans safe, and that is exactly what he is trying to do by enforcing The Patriot Act. I can only conclude that the people who are against these searches have something to hide. However, these searches are geared towards people within our country communicating with people outside of this country who are believed to be involved with either funding terrorist organizations or who are involved in terrorist organizations; people like you and me will not even be affected by these searches. I think it is quite amusing that democrats/liberals are so adamantly opposed to these kinds of searches, yet if we were to be the victim to another terrorist attack, the first person that they would blame is Bush because he “didn’t do anything to prevent it,” yet he is trying to prevent another attack by instituting The Patriot Act.

DomesticTerror said:



I already know that the only response anyone will provide is “it is unconstitutional,” but if wiretapping, checking phone records, library records, e-mails, etc. will most likely give us valuable information as to potential terrorist attacks on our soil, which will obviously kill many innocent Americans, why would any American be against these “searches”? It is a duty of the president of this country to keep Americans safe, and that is exactly what he is trying to do by enforcing The Patriot Act. I can only conclude that the people who are against these searches have something to hide. However, these searches are geared towards people within our country communicating with people outside of this country who are believed to be involved with either funding terrorist organizations or who are involved in terrorist organizations; people like you and me will not even be affected by these searches. I think it is quite amusing that democrats/liberals are so adamantly opposed to these kinds of searches, yet if we were to be the victim to another terrorist attack, the first person that they would blame is Bush because he “didn’t do anything to prevent it,” yet he is trying to prevent another attack by instituting The Patriot Act.

anonymous said:

You are awfully trusting of a proven liar.

And if you think his one motive is "keeping Americans safe" you are incredibly naive

The issue isn't whether or not Bush is trying to prevent terrorism by spying on Americans. It is the fact that he is declaring himself above the law by ignoring the FICA court. FICA warrants are ridiculously easy to get and you have up to 72 hours after you spy on someone to obtain a warrant. If a terror threat was imminent the time difference between bypassing FICA and shooting them a warrant request would be like the delay between the moment you click Qik Reply on this board and when your post appears.

And if domestic spying is the salve to the threat of terrorism think about this. Each and every one of the 9/11 hijackers were filmed by the thousands of surveilance cameras in our airports and there were warnings about major Al-Qaeda actions in the US, yet we were powerless to stop them.

paganmegan said:

agreed. he's doing it to steal our oil and line the pockets of haliburton stockholders with money.

KEEP americans safer, heh?

wouldn't it be better if, while sifting through 8-zillion phone records/e-mails of "What are you wearing?" and/or who took "Fucking Jesus Up The Ass With A 12-Inch Dildo" from the library (I don't believe it's on the shelf HERE), and other such wild goose chases, someone in the Bush administration paid attention to FBI filed office memos such as "Bin Laden Determined to Strike inside the USA" and messages from flight training schools such as "Um...we had a student come in here the other day who wanted to take classes on not how to FLY a Jumbo 747, but how to hijak and crash one"????

I definitely think the state of American politics and the amount of opposition towards the state of things (or lack thereof really) proves just how stupid the majority of people are. We need an entirely new system of government and for people to get a fucking clue

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
-Ben Franklin

I wrote a paper for a class last year comparing and contrasting Thomas Jefferson's policies and philisophies to Bush's, and let's just say Jefferson (as imperfect as he was and as imperfect that form of the U.S. government was) is rolling in his grave. Between the lack of "personal liberty" and the lack of secularism

keep christian filth away!

Is it 2008 yet?

wow what a bunch of pig headed liberals we got here! look at these boards, pam, megan, larissa - oh you think your so smart huh? last time i checked women are inferior, it's science. i think we need to back to the good olde days, back when women weren't allowed to vote. stop being sore losers and start cooking and cleaning everything. you're all so dumb, i'm gonna put my main man, JESUS in control of your bodies. that's right, get your stigmata on! obviously have something to hide if you don't the want the government spying on you 24 hours a day. oh and all this jefferson talk, wow, i think you're over analzying history way to much. that shit is meaningless. after all it's HIStory, so you probably are fucking up the way you understand it (since it was written by a man). so basically stop dreaming of a better tomorrow, okay, and realize that progression is a step towards evil. we need to conserve an ancient system that is based on god. and if you don't support that, you're coward, and a pinko and definately not true!

IT'S NOT WHO'S RIGHT. IT'S WHO TALKED THE LOUDEST!

fucking rev, you and your jewish media site here and it's fucking conspriacy to commit blasphemy against the almighty jesus.

I'm opposed to the commander in chief breaking the law, plain and simple. If Bush wants some info on potential terror attacks, he should read the reports handed to him and act on them, at least before reading my e-mails. And if you honestly believe that these searches will not affect "people like you and me" than you are either highly delusional, or borderline retarded.

anonymous said:


He could have done it legally by simply appying for a warrant, the fact that he didn't bother makes it all the more sleazy and low-life...Nixon was impeached for breaking the same law. If you want wiretaps to prevent terrorism then let's wiretap the whitehouse because I can't think of any bigger terrorists.

paganmegan said:

fuckin' a, thank you, preach on sister...

pam nli said:

ha, you think Bush will actually leave office in 2008? He's going to get Alito on the Supreme court and they'll decide that Bush has absolute power and can stay as long as he wants.

That's when I suck on the urgent end of a shotgun.

So.....
Does anyone have any productive ideas that can be EXPLAINED and are likely to be accomplished?
Seriously, the biggest problem America faces today is people know only how to bitch and point fingers one way or the other, but can't think of real solutions to problems and are so paraniod of each other, nothing can be done with out assuming that either the Jesus Squad or the Commies are behind everything and are about to take over your lives?
Part of the reason that the Democrats have fucked up so much in the past 10 years is because they've allowed their face to be that of the most loudmouth ultra left wing people possible so that your avergage person that isn't all that deep in politics get turned off.
The days of Dixiecrats and Regan Democrats are dying and guys like Joe Leiberman are a dying breed.
On the same hand, I don't believe the Republicans are as deep into the Jesus Squad as people think. There are plenty of them in the House and Senate that don't like all of Bush's plans and have blocked him or at least made him alter bills. If anything, there are plenty that are trying to keep the Jesus Squad from speaking for all Republicans much like the Democrats have let themselves go from being the party of the working man to the party of the welfare state and interest group.
The quote that I hear more and more these days is this:
"I didn't leave the Democratic Party, The Democratic Party left me".

As for everyone assuming doomsday, we've survived 5 years of Bush, we'll survive the rest. If you are still whining about how you are so afraid that you think you're gonna leave the country, I'm willing to bet you said that in 2000 when Gore lost (HE LOST! GET OVER IT! IT'S A DEAD HORSE), then again in 2004. Why the fuck are you still here?! Leave already. If you really believe you are in such danger, then you are a fool not to have bailed out. Otherwise, you are full of shit.
I may not agree on every issue with him, but I'm with Josh. I'm an American, I'm a Patriot and I intend to stay and improve my country from within. This is going to be ours someday, so we have to start sometime.

cmo said:

I oppose The Patriot Act and I have nothing to hide, keep watching FOX News and sucking President Bush's cock.

I agree there's too much bitching, and not enough action. That tends to be my biggest issue with a lot of my fellow lefties. They're cowards that prefer to hide in their run down homes, and cry about the injustices of the world.

I don't know how to fix the country's problems...but what I do know is this, what Hail The Leaf and I are most afraid of...

You CANNOT out law abortion. You cannot tell a woman what to do with her body, her future and her life. All the reasons the right has for ban abortion, the morning after pill, and birth control, are based in religious beliefs. We have every right to complain about Alito being sworn in because that is one more step toward reversing Roe V Wade. It CAN happen, it's not a false threat. I get off my ass and write letters, I've called senators, and I plan to be in DC this year for the march.

AT LEAST when lots and lots of people complain, it creates a buzz, more people are, voluntarily or not, dragged into having to pick a side. Now it may only cause 1 out of every 100 people to take some action, but 1 is better than nothing. If no one complained, no one would do anything to stop the bitching, and we'd be screwed. Think about it that way.

I know what you're saying though, and there are plenty of people on the left and right who agree with you. All I'm saying is I'd rather hear mass complaining and whining than silence.

Pam.
It's not gonna happen.
Trust me.
It's a scaretactic.
Reversing Roe V Wade is political suicide and much harder in terms of law then people think. Supreme court justices can't just wave a wand and change laws they may not like. It has nothing to do with liking a law, they decypher the laws and would have to prove that a law broke other laws by it's presence, therefore is null.
People were scared of Regan doing this and they put fuckin Ginsberg in the court. Yeah, I could really see Ruth Ginsberg overturning Roe V Wade.
Any party that tried that would create a political firestorm in America that would seriously eclipse the Iraq war debate, protests and civil unrest.
The Republicans would be crippled as a party after taking away a hotly contested law that is over thirty years old.

Focusing on Roe v. Wade is a complete waste of energy, since neither party will fully support or ban it, it's just a great way to attract voters.

People should really focus on prospective justices's stances on privacy and property rights. It might be grand and all that our Supreme Court reflects our majority Christian values, but it's not going to be all that great when you're homeless because Wal-Mart wants an electronics department where your house stands (the Supreme Court said that's totally legal, take that individual property rights).

BobNOMAAMRooney said:
I cannot help but agree with you 100% here. Of coarse everyone has their own opinion on it, but using this issue as the platform for one's campaign or judicial confirmation is a crock of shit.

pam nli said:

one of the best statements in this thread.

Yes, whining doesn't do a hell of a lot, but then again, this isn't exactly the forum for a movement. It is merely the 5% on this board who actually give a shit about what is going on. Regardless of anyone's political affiliation, i'm just gald that these few of us who actually pay attention take the time out of our 10 minutes a day on this board to express/vent/respond to eachother. For example, I may not agree with Hungtableed most of the time, but I'm glad the two of us go at it. Maybe it will stimulate someone else's interest in the subjects. Just because someone makes political statements on a metal board, it doesn't necessarily constitute whining/inaction. Maybe some of us just care enough to spread the word or at least provoke thought. Most people here can't seem to grasp anything beyond "death to false metal" and "such and such is gay." Bovine America is everywhere...

RACE WAR
QUICK
BEFORE THE CHINESE
INVADE AND ENSLAVE US ALL

I'm glad I'm back in Europe, socialized health care sucks, yeah, but it sucks less than no health care. Health costs are much much lower here, even in Norway. At least school and universities are more or less free.
Politicians sucks no matter you put them.
Grass is not greener on the other side, shit is everywhere.
At least I'm not paying taxes and living in a country whose politics and way of life are totally against my believes, my conscience feels much better now.

BobNOMAAMRooney said:

Yeah there should be more people pissed off about this. It's pretty fucked up.

Plan B sounds good to me...

http://www.alternet.org/story/31679/

Dankill said:

Boy are you wrong about that.

Clinton put Ginsberg on the court, not Reagan.

Reagan nominated Sandra Day O'Connor, who, in the Michigan University case favor of affirmative action, although pointed out that the country was fast approaching a time when affirmative action wouldn't be something that could be legal anymore, voted to bounce abortion decisions back to states and to NOT overturn Roe v. Wade. Of note, the republican nominated Alito just voted to NOT execute a man who Clarence Thomas, a democrat nominee (Bill Clinton) voted TO execute. What someone says up front, before appointment can be very different from how they actually vote. You see, once you are on there you can't be removed...so, you are actually free to vote however you feel is legally responsible, not how the party who nominated wants you to.

Dankill said:

You're being sarcastic here right? If not, you are ill-informed. Ginsberg is arguably the most hardline left wingers that has even occupied the bench. I would go as far as saying that she was put on to affirm that abortion laws NOT be overturned.

anonymous said:

Uh, Clarnece Thomas was appointed by Bush Sr., not Clinton.

Do any of you people ever check your facts??

What I don't get is why, with the population being so overblown (and not getting better) people wouldn't support abortion more avidly? I mean, anything to keep the population trimmed down can't be anything but beneficial. Oh wait, I forget, somehow, out of the millions of times the fucking bible has been translated they somehow deduced that god and jesus want as many babies born to impoverished single mothers, illegal aliens and welfare crack addicts as possible

complete morons

cause if they're too busy dealing with unwanted children then they wont have time to deal with whats actually going on.

and they'll also work for pennies and drag the whole standard for jobs and pay down, down, down

the idiots are the ones breeding for the most part. And boy do politicians like idiots

totally my mistake - I always get confused with him because of the whole Anita Hill thing - seems like a democrat scandal that one right there. But, the rest of the paragraph is indeed correct and taken right from O'Connor's record. And, of note, O'Connor, a Republican nominee was replaced by another Republican nominee, so, it is kind of an even exchange.

paganmegan said:

yup easy to throw up a flag and say things about freedom, helping the poor and how times were easier then and how that politician will make it their goal to bring it back to those times.

all pure bullshit, but its the cycle of the swamp we call our capital

paganmegan said:

I am completely in favor of abortion, but, you have some things wrong right here. Impoverished single mothers aren't the main faction getting abortions. It is upper middle class women with decent education and health insurance. As far as population control, go to the middle of the country and tell me our population is out of control. Thousands of acres of nothing but open land there for the developing. Our borders still open to anyone who wants to come here and further populate. I think we should shut that down before we worry about using abortion to keep American women from over populating.

anonymous said:

actually thats wrong and the middle of the country would still be being used today if it wasnt for reagan and bush sr. farmers lost everything in the 80 and early 90s. id say further but they had nothing left to lose after those two presidents. well continue to grow poor over the fact we export our biggest jobs to other countries for pennies.

I think upper middle class women have every right to get abortions if they want to, and any other woman for that matter. I was arguing from the standpoint of why politicians would want to keep women breeding in large amounts. And the population is out of control, everywhere. The bottom line here, mr (or ms) anonymous, is abortions should be more readily available and encouraged. I never once stated which faction of the population was getting the most. Reading comprehension...

And the population is in fact expanding. just because there are select areas of land where there aren't tons of people means very little. Its a little thing known as "uneven distribution of the populace"

Oh and it has very little to do with the border being open, because even if it was closed people would still immigrate illegaly. I think that is what needs to be cracked down on, not the people with legitimate papers who cross the borders

whiskey_weed_and_women said:


I blame the government for not cracking down and putting something in place to keep factory work here in this country. Penalties for going where it's cheaper that sort of thing. NAFTA went a long way toward fucking middle america in that respect, thank you Bill Clinton. My point is, we aren't overpopulates space wise, although perhaps we are job wise...again solidifying my view that it's time to close the borders. force Americans to take the shitty jobs they'll take, perhaps force the wages to come up, and get some of our people back to work.

raising wages doesn't help anything, it just makes stuff cost more.

the borders being open has nothing to do with the lack of jobs and closing them isnt going to do anything but have more illegal immigrates in the country who get more tax dollars spent on them then legal immigrates. also nafta would have been a good idea but it backfired on the government and instead of outside countries coming here to bring in work, our state side jobs well went overseas and south of the border. making it impossible to live in our own country. growing up my mother worked three jobs to support myself and two sibs, in this day and again that wouldnt have even supported her nevermind three kids.

this is a wage war, not a population control issue. people need to stop worrying about other people and look to the factors and companies that keep screwing them over.

paganmegan said:

I agree that any woman should be able to get an abortion when they want one. My point was, the crackwhore isn't the one getting knocked up and going for an abortion and unless it was completely free, and even then, I don't think she'd be the one getting the abortion. there is a lot of money to be made by having a child in this country. (a lot is not really true, but in the eyes of someone who doesn't want to work...you get the picture). Spanish speaking immigrants are far less likely to seek abortions...they are highly religious, catholic people (one of the reasons Republicans will never complain too loudly about their immigrating here - that and being able to use them basically as low wage slaves)

eddie said:

yeah, it certainly could make stuff cost more...if we continue to allow the corporate fat cats to profit as highly as they do while paying their people peanuts. most companies could pay their people more without ever raising prices, just by cutting some of the top salaries. not all companies are run like Ben and Jerry's where the highest paid person can't make more than 10 times the lowest....

eddie said:

I mean, notice that a pair of Nike's keep getting more expensive every year, but they are paying less for raw materials and their workforce than in the earliest years of the company. Sure everything has gone up...but to go from $30 a pair to $175 when you are paying 10 cents an hour as opposed to what was probably $4.00 an hour back in the day?

mmm ben and jerry's oh man that'd be so good right now

paganmegan said:
we are not cracking down on legal immigrants. similarly, we are not cracking down on illegal immigrants either.
Also, contrary to popular belief, not everyone who is against abortion is a Jesus freak, or even religous in any way for that matter.

They should raise the wages to our soldiers. My cousin estimates he makes about $3.33 an hour. He rationalizes that he gets free food, housing, and gets to unload thousands of rounds of ammo and blow shit up (all at our, the taxpayers, expense)
I'd say, maybe if we created incentives to get off welfare and stopped hiring illigals to do jobs "Americans refuse to take", the lazy bastads on welfare (not the genuinely poor and needy) will be forced to take them jobs now vacant by the lack of illegals.

anonymous said:

if thats how you feel don't buy nike, don't work for nike. thats not gonna change the fact that if wages are increased $ for bread will increase.

hungtabreed said:

that may be true, but it is safe to say the majority of them tout religion and anti-abortion in the same breath. the people you see picketing outside planned parenthood are the ones holding crosses and kneeling on the sidewalk

as you said

hungtabreed said:

you couldnt be more completely wrong

my whole point is politics in this country are fucked. fuck the liberals, fuck the conservatives, stop the illegals from fucking crossing the border, stop the catholics from fucking and just fucking wake the fuck up

eddie said:

I used Nike as an example. It's virtually the same for most all manufacturing companies and now a lot of high tech companies sending jobs to India. It's about profit to the company, they don't charge less for their services or give the consumer a break, but they certainly could pass on the savings. I think the government needs to step in with certain items and say you can't gouge like that. For necessary items, housing, food, etc.

paganmegan said:
You right, undoubtedly many/most of them are. At the very least, the most vocal of the such are the indeed the religious right. I just think that it's pathetic that abortion is the means to cover up for a situation that someone could have avoided just only if they practiced an ounce of responcibility. That's just my opinion, and you know what they say about those don't you?

paganmegan said:

I assure you, the majority of American Catholics are such shoddy Catholics that they have no problems with abortions for themselves or at the very least for others who choose to have them. Unfortunately, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the headlines, so all Catholics get painted into that corner.

why be an idiotic christian if you can't even be a real iditotic christian? So they can whack bibles and tell others they will go to hell?

paganmegan said:

you can believe in some parts and not in others. not everything is so black and white. not all christians whack bibles and tell others they will burn in hell. you are probably sitting next to several right now who have never even mentioned what their faith and beliefs are. for some, religion is personal.

the ones I have a problem are the aforementioned bible beaters. I don't give a rat's ass whether a person worships yaweh, jesus or a fucking cheddar cheese wheel. Just keep it away from me. Far far away from me

anonymous said:

sir, please do me a favor and go to virginia beach during the summer and down on the strip you will not only see middle aged folks thumbin bibles in their best white shirts and blue ties...but they also bring along their children dressed up in the same manner handing out flyers telling you to stop your sinning way or you'll burn in hell.

this might not be the majority of the population but dont for a second think those people are a joke or made up. its all very real and quite scary

paganmegan said:

I agree completely and my parents raised me to not talk about religion or politics it doesn't really get you anywhere.

whiskey_weed_and_women said:

I know it exists. I know it's not a joke - it's as scary to me as Muslim zealots, but, not all Muslims are zealots either. For every bible thumper in Virginia Beach with their kids, there are 50 families who believe in Jesus and look at these people for what they are, scary zealots who don't represent their views or their religion as they or their priests see it.

actually its sadly the opposite there, Vabeach is home to Pat Robertson and he doesnt try hiding that its his town.

those folks who go out are encouraged to from their churches, the churches down there are set up like a sports center is up here huge billboard out front and all. it is what people fear from these people the most.

paganmegan said:

The rich want poor people to have tons of kids so they have more people to enslave, enlist in the military, and pay taxes. What's really funny is how the pro-lifers support policies that take more lives away than abortions ever would. More babies die in this country from lack of sexual education, pre-natal care/healthcare than in several third world nations.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Best point in the thread so far.

anonymous said:

They say they believe in Jesus, problem is, they completely ignore his teachings. You know, that whole part about not caring about material things and helping the poor...sharing food and shelter, accepting people and not judging. Fuck man, Mary was his favorite disciple and kept the whole religion alive and the catholic church painted her as a fucking prostitute because they didn't want women to have any power in the church!

HailTheLeaf said:


the rich don't want the poor to have tons of kids because they don't want to have to support them with welfare/their dollars. I can't speak to what goes on (or doesn't) in the head of a pro lifer, but, I will say, I have nothing against someone being pro life as long as they aren't trying to force me to be pro life too, or looking to change legistation. Live and let live. But, I can speak to what a lot of wealthy people think about poor people having tons of kids, and in my experience it's not something they are looking for. again, poor people don't pay enough taxes to make a difference to someone with millions of dollars.

"The rich have all of the money and do none of the work,
The middle class does all the work and pays all the taxes,
The poor are just there to scare the shit out of the middle class"

George Carlin

"keep 'em showin' up to those jaahbs!"

HailTheLeaf said:

wow you're paranoid. no seriously i can't believe there are people that think that.



that could be true, but maybe thats because of where i live. I can name you at least 20 people without thinking too hard that have had abortions, i can't think of any babies that have died because they didn't get the care they needed.

eddie said:

no it makes perfect sense. rich people = republicans = christians = babies born to support the system.
come on now!

This is the most intelligent political thread on a msg. board I've ever seen.

I think it's scary that people think Roe V Wade could NEVER be overturned. I'm not worried it will happen tomorrow, or next year, but to say "it'll never happen" is incredibly naive.

I don't really understand anyone that doesn't pay attention to shit like this, it affects everyone. Sticking your head in the sand is how this backdoor bullshit slips by in the first place.

DomesticTerror said:

Thankyou.

DEMOCRACY IS LIES
MASS COMPLAINING ACHIEVES NO MORE THAN SILENCE
SO YOUR PREFERENCE IS PURELY AESTHETIC

I WOULD RATHER HEAR THE SOUNDS OF THE DEATHS OF IDIOTS
AND THE OVEN DOORS A-CLANGIN'

what is your opinion of the portrayal of nihilists in the media?

for example. The Big Lebowski.

or do you care?

brian_dc said:

brian, you leave good movies and characters alone or ill mosh up and down that two steppin' head of yours.

goddamn i love that movie, the dude abides !

It is true, you've just never heard about it. You know 20 people who've had an abortion? How many of them knew anything about birth control or had easy access to it? Nothing is 100% foolproof, and accidents happen, but I only know 3 people who've had an abortion, one was from lack of education, one had her boyfriend tell her was sterile, and the other just made several dumb decisions in high school.

brian_dc said:

wow, really funny movies are now considered "the media"...it's gotten that bad already eh?

BornSoVile said:




Wow. I never knew that all rich people were Republicans and Christians...


George Soros = filthy rich = hard-line Liberal = not Chistian what-so-ever = supports abortion


What about this guy?

obviously not everyone with money is a republican douchebag, just the majority...and George Soros, that's one guy out of how many?

HailTheLeaf said:


Just the majority, eh?

What about:

The entire Democrat party
Oprah
Sean Penn
Susan Sarandon
Bono
Kanye West
The Rolling Stones
George Clooney
P. Diddy
Gwyneth Paltrow
singer of Coldplay
Eminem
Janine Garofalo
Brad Pitt
Jennifer Aniston
everyone in Hollywood
etc.


Honestly, I could go on and on, but I think that you get the point that you are dead wrong, "douchebag."

ALL OF ENTERTAINMENT IS LEFTIST
BECAUSE LEFTISM IS FOR SELF OBSESSED FLAKEJOBS

HailTheLeaf said:

Most people with wealth are leftist. Republicans gain their support from the non-coastal middle and lower classes.

Democrats, on the other hand, are coastal middle and upper classes...

cmo said:

wow, a few actors and musicans, how impressive...I'm totally convinced now...how could I be so wrong after seeing this list? Obviously poor people would want to be Repubicans as they do sooo much for the poor and needy of the world right? That's definately where their interests are, they keep showing that with their taxs cuts just for the rich, corporate wellfare, and their response to hurricane Katrina...now I could list all of the corporations that donate to Republican causes, and you'd look dumb again, in fact it doesn't matter because they contribute to democrats also. There's no opposition party, they both suck, and I wouldn't vote for either, but to deny that Republicans are a party that represent only the wealthy is just retarded. Oh, my mistake they do represent some poor people, those who are so evolved that their major concerns are banning gay marriage and keeping immigrants from crossing an imaginary line.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

Yes, Clinton put Ginsberg in. My Bad. I ment to make the point that the Republicans didn't fight her much to put installed.

Yes, people should be more afraid of of the I.D. Ruling then of Roe V Wade being overturned because,
One of these issues has been making people crazy for years with not one damn thing happening even though it's "gonna happen anyay now! LOOK OUT!"
The other happened under our noses (With a LEFT majority court, mind you) with minimal attention, yet can affect anyone, rich or poor, man or woman, ect ect and yet most of the American public doesn't even know about it, seeing as they could lose their homes or businesses from it.

Seriously, which of these really sounds scarier?

HailTheLeaf said:

Every sovereign nation in the world has an "imaginary line" where in which you are not allowed to cross illegally. In our current state (i.e threat of Al-Qaeda and the headcutters) it would be suicide to not enforce our illegal immigration policies and ignore that there 'imaginary line'. Our boarders could quite possibly be the crux to our survival. That's why I ask, why the fuck are we not doing anything about it?

I don't want these guys over here.
They would cut your head off as fast as mine.

Fuck Camel Jocky Allah worshippin' SAND NIGGERS!!

OK....now that I got that out...I need a slushie...anyone know where I can hit a 7-11 'round here?