(tl;dr)

In my lame attempt to start a Conservationist-type thread, here is a short, but simple social analysis of metal fans. These are nothing but generalizations and you're more than welcome to agree or disagree. I'm not saying I agree with everything I'm typing, but am just throwing out basic examples of people.
The point is to discuss the topic of metal elitism in relation to how the metalhead's personality is, or how long they've been into metal. While most would assume that it DOESN'T really matter, it is and always has been a prevalent topic in metal. Remember, metal is a subculture, and it has slowly been meshing into mainstream more and more as years pass.

There are three kinds of people that listen to metal. Two of the three are real fans and have every right to enjoy the music. The other one... well, they can listen to the music but are in it for social reasons.

Person number one: Metal Elitist/Metal Veteran/Knowledgeable Metalhead/Dwyer

Metal fan who has been listening to loud music most of their life and is
knowledgeable on all fronts of metal. They live and die by heavy music, and can name any band just by their sound. These people have the choice to feel enlightened over the other two kinds of fans or to not feel enlightened at all. It is personal choice, and most people find them to be elitist assholes.

Person number two: Average Metal Fan/Metalhead/Newer fan of metal

These people haven't been listening to metal as long as the first type, but love everything about it. Their profound love for metal may even supersede that of most "metal veterans" because the music is still fresh and new to them. Most metalheads fall in this category. But like the "metal veterans", they have a personal choice in feeling superior than other metalheads.

Person number three: Hipsters/Overnighters/Posers/Social Metalheads

These are the people that want to be cool and different. They're the shallow-souled versions of your average indie rocker, but with a bite. They're attracted to the metal subculture and claim to enjoy the music, but can't hold a conversation about the music and what it really means. They're the social scum of metal; anything that is loud and has people headbanging must mean it's good.


The big question is: what purpose does metal elitism serve? The social hierarchy of metal (whether you want to admit it or not) has turned into a cesspool full of shit. Does metal elitism reflect personal insecurities with oneself? If that's the case, then metal elitists are no different than hipsters, right?

While this may seem like an overly analytical dissertation with no real meaning, we must all remember that music is music and it will always have fans no matter what. Metal subculture is different than say, prog-rock subculture.. there's no question. It seems metal fans have more social insecurities than any other type of music fan, and metal elitism is just the tip of the iceberg.

Remember kiddos, be fans of the music and not fans of the social structure within the metal community.

So in short, metal elitists are now hipsters because metal is now mainstream. The end.

I should have added NORTHERN ELITE HEADBANGERS next to Dwyer's name.

Either way, this thread fails to deliver any real meaning. I just wanted to point out that metal is mainstream now and elitism is old newz. Also, I'm a hipster and everyone that listens to metal is.

this thread comes off as manic

I don't live in the city so I don't have to bother with all that... The only person that likes metal as much as me on this seacoast is MaClean... and No One Likes Us here... and we don't care

Indeed it does. No matter how hard I try, I can't make good retro Conservationist threads.

i dont even like to refer to myself as a metalhead anymore. i love metal but enjoy too many other types of music to pigeonhole myself.

right there with you. i don't live in the city either, but there's no maclean down here

FALSER

unfortunately tru metal aint mainstream, my cd player has been broken and its godamn impossible to find any thing that even resembles metal on the radio. you got some nice old school hard rock, but thats just not it. and yea, thinking your better than other people because youve had more years to hear more bands is just another waste of time/energy. just like those other cool guys who get all elitist on you cuz you dont know how to curse in klingon. on the other hand its godamn annoying when some fake fuck walks in talkin metal and starts listing slipknot etc.. bottom line, who cares, fuck em.

I always find myself listening to the metal I grew up on. I just can't get into many newer death or black metal bands. Doesn't mean I'm an elitist hipster. Oh wait, it does by how this thread presents itself.

i used to get really annoyed with person number 3, but now i don't give much of a fuck anymore. i just like what i like and i don't care about what anyone else does. sometimes i still get a little annoyed, but over the last few years i've realized there's way more important shit to worry about than what some other asshole does.

I think you can equate that with getting old, bitter, and jaded... There are old timers out there that won't even bother with anything new... Anything post 94' is not worth hearing to them

agreed. unless it's duckduckgoose.

Hits the nail on the head...

I'm an old timer who enjoys a lot of new stuff, so what does that make me?

You forgot the hobby rockers.

McGunk

:/

I hear you guys there, the late 80s and early 90s was my time as well. I don't write off newer stuff though, but I better appreciate bands that have some elements of that timeframe in their music. I think my riff-writing also reflects those years, whether it be death metal, hardcore, or even punk. I don't really understand being into music for the social aspect only -- if a band doesn't grab you by the balls and demand some sort of attention or reaction from you, why would you even waste your time with it?

Average Metal Elitist: Hails, Other Average Metal Elitist! I just got myself Blood-Spangled Dogma's obscure "Tetra-gorevomit" EP on Vinyl. Have you heard it?

Other Average Metal Elitist: No, Average Metal Elitist. I've been too busy enjoying Corpse Grenade's lastest never-before-heard side-project "Nuclear Sewage Pizza." Have you heard it?

Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Unholy Gore Ninja Massacre?

Other Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of God Blasphemy Dogs?

Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Muerte Assassina Puta?

Other Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Pagan God's Thor's Pagan?

Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard Gandalf's Black throne?

Other Average Metal Elitist: No. Wanna play D&D?

Individualism is where it's at. But real Individualism, not social individualism (an oxymoron it may be, but understandable in some sense)

I liked Unholy Gore Ninja Massacre's 1994 demo. It was downhill after that.

I have been listening to heavy music since I had the capacity to make the choice, but I had no true exposure to death metal until I was out of high school. I'm the guy that can tell who a band is or exactly where their influences lie just by the sound, but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge like Jim or Dwyer. It's in my nature to absorb the best or most useful form of anything and completely ignore any extraneous data, for better or worse, which I why I don't care about 99% of music that passes by, but that 1% I cannot live without.

I've found that anybody who makes an effort to seek out bands far beyond the mainstream, especially in heavy music, has a certain type of personality, and a rebellious disposition from the start. They exhibit at the very least a respectable taste in all art, and inevitably know that their taste is "refined" even if they don't have to make other people know about it.

I have no use for elitism or fascism in any form, but it's hard to deny feelings of disdain toward someone who does not make efforts to refine their artistic taste.

Remember that it's 2011, the roots of metal have been around for a lifetime now. The information age tends to dumb down everything, but there are still kids out there that can tell if something has artistic value or not. It's a generational thing, metal (or even just loud music) is becoming more mainstream and fewer are able to sort the good from the bad. It takes people with that disposition to shun what is popular and make the effort...

Well said.

And there is a horrific amount of "bad" to sort through...

Personally, I'm into metal entirely for the music and not at all for the social aspect. I'm not much of a friends type since I don't talk much. I don't dislike the social aspect - metal shows are the only shows where I've had spontaneous conversations with fellow attendees. But I'm also a dork, so I don't have much in common with the badass/scary guy metalhead types even if I like some of the same bands they do.

I didn't grow up with metal; I got into it only when I was 18-19 and in college. I cannot remember any metalheads at my high school. Plenty of hardcore kids, but no metalheads.

Because I'm second generation, I don't have the sentimental attachment to the 70s and 80s that old-timers do. But given a choice, I'd rather investigate an older metal band than a newer one. Ghost may be cool, but until I have every Mercyful Fate album memorized top to bottom, I don't see the point of spending much time on Ghost.

If there are metal fans living near me (east part of the city) I haven't seen any of them. I actually have been considering moving west or north just to be closer to shows.

I acquire new music at a slow rate, so I have no hopes of ever being the encyclopedic-knowledge type. I also value depth more than breadth, so I'd rather listen to a few good albums a ton fo times than a lot of good albums just a few times. I realize and accept the fact that this means that I will always be missing out on a lot of good music.

I find that most people assume I’m involved in Black Metal in order to meet men. This couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s true that I met my boyfriend through playing music, but lucky for me my boyfriend is an honest and respectful individual as well as a brilliant musician. These categories, true metalheads, hipster metalheads, etc, could be applied to any social scene. What really angers me is when I see other women disrespected just because they are women and when I see other women behaving like groupies. For me, Black Metal is an outlet to express my emotion about the social constraints applied to me because I’m a woman. Black Metal isn’t about gaining approval for proving self-worth. When I can hang out with my friends, drink a beer, and listen to Melencolia Estatica, that’s when my love for Black Metal shines through. Black Metal elitism is just like any other form of elitism, it is an expression of self-doubt as well as a symbol of social conformity. I love Etta James just as much as I love Absu, I’m not going to walk around and pretend to be a metal know-it-all, or that Black Metal is the only music I listen to. I respect people who strive to be free of social norms.

fuuck yeeah.

i like this.

There's just as much Blue Oyster Cult in Ghost as there is Mercyful Fate.

OK, but you understand what I was trying to say

STFU and let me enjoy my music.

AGREED. I live in the city and could care less about whether people think Im metal or not. True metal will never be about how many patches you can fit on your jacket.

It should be noted that there are many different kinds of emotions that are present in other kinds of music which are absent in metal.

I do. But I enjoy hearing 70's and 80's bands recycled by today's bands. Sometimes.

Which is why there is still room to grow.

I disagree in some ways, bit agree in others. The metal foundation should always be prevelant.

sums it up pretty good at about 40 seconds in.


bennyhillifier

I agree, there is defiantly room to grow. Musical growth is synonymous with emotional growth.

Oone thing I've noticed about people in the U.S in general is that most people that aren't metal fans enjoy listening to music that they can sing along to. The first thing they usually say when they hear a loud band is "why do they have to sing with a scary voice". They stop right their and don't give the rest of the song a chance.

Metal fans I think learn to appreciate more than just the lyrics and singing that dominates popular music. They listen to the instrumentation more over the singing. Even if they don't understand the singing or the language a song is being sung in they can still appreciate other aspects like the vocal harmonies or how metal vocals can add another layer of distortion with the guitars. This is true for me at least.

^which is why I like TBTB

i care way more about the music than the vocals or lyrics and i'm a singer. those things are important, but if you have good singing and well-written lyrics over cruddy music, it's worthless. i can live with vocals being just a layer that adds to the music rather than the main focus. the lyrics could be about someone wishing death on me personally, but if the music is good, i'll like it.

Brutal Death Shoegaze Jazz band called Kenkill or gtfo

Metal is actually a newer thing for me, over the past couple years for the most part, despite the fact that I've been posting here much longer. I was mostly a punk/grind guys for years after listening to a small scattering of a bunch of different genres in high school. Eventually I was able to hone in on one thing I really liked a whole lot, but the recent transition to metal in a lot of ways stems from boredom with my own guitar playing. There really isn't a whole lot you can do with punk and I felt I had gotten as good as I was going to get. There is also the fact that parting ways with my guitar scares the ever-loving shit out of me because it's one of the only things I have in my life where I feel truly confident in my ability. So I knew I had to expand my horizons and see what else I could do with this instrument and I've heard some pretty damn kick ass bands out of it.

Another aspect that led to this evolution is simply the fact that festivals of a certain genre, no matter where in the country they are have the same bands on them and you end up seeing the same shit over and over. It's almost like a brand name being pushed on you... this is just as true of metal as it is punk, but metal has clearly evolved into more styles and it's not as if I've shunned the music I once loved before, it just doesn't play as big a role in my life as it used to. When the desire to hear more sounds becomes lost, the social aspect is the only thing you have left, and anyone who bases their life on socialization is a hollow shell of a human being indeed.

As far as screaming goes, I greatly prefer screaming/instrumental music because it removes the human element from the sound in a way... obviously there are people still playing the instruments and belting out the gutturals and what not, but when you can't understand what they're saying, it's real easy to forget. I take more solace in solitude than being around someone I can't relate to, and such is why I don't listen to genres like rap or pop because it's just people revealing themselves (often how fucking boring they are) and the music is an afterthought. I can't relate to anyone who places speaking their mind as something more important than creating sounds or art (which is exactly the problem with the modern hardcore scene).

Lifelong metalhead who still gets inspired by modern bands here. Sorry.

I like the tripartite division. I think it's most accurate, with one addition: the first category splits into two.



To that you could add:

(a) THOSE WHO VIEW METAL AS A COMMUNITY OR ABSTRACT IDEA. These people don't care if they are personally enlightened or not, but care about musical quality and allegiance to an artistic idea, whether they like it or not. For them, elitism is about choosing music of quality, and quality is determined not only by artistry (including musicianship and composition) but by the quality and relevance of what the music expresses. For these people, it is not personal at all, but rather the opposite. They see us all and themselves as means to an end, of a larger gestalt or union of community and idea.

#a elitist includes 4/5 of the quality metal musicians I've met/written.

agreed. Music should have something behind it, but over-analying takes the art out of it. Metal will always have something to offer.

Oh come on, Dwyer was signing shitty mosh-death bands when NEH were just getting into Pokemon!

ITT: Listen to what music you like and stop giving a shit about anything else.

Agreed with both Conservationist and also with Blue.
Although I must say that there are a buttload of horrible bands today. More than olden days because there's just so many bands now.

they are trying too hard to be unique and not trying hard enough to be good.

I listen to Robin Trower and that makes me better than everyone

There's nothing wrong with trying to be unique. We wouldn't have metal like we have today without people trying to be unique.

If you're any good, being unique comes naturally. You shouldn't have to "try" to do it.

I get inspired by newer bands, and newer albums by older bands. While there are way more shitty bands to sift through nowadays, the benefit to there being a ridiculous amount of bands in existence is there are a lot of good ones so there's always good new music to look forward to.

It's hard for me to keep up with all the good metal coming out. At this point there Are more people in bands than not.

For me and hopefully many others, elitist in NE is one who puts down fellow metal heads, bands or music to say this or that is better. I have always said to people that band sucks, because they don't do anything for me and not that they don't have talent, but not my taste. For example, people liked Slayers 90's albums and I still a life long fan, but not that shit. I am not a elitist by any means! I have heard a lot of metal and probably not heard it all! To me the metal scene should be people who have one common thread, metal music and don't have to like the same bands to be metal or have the knowledge(shows/albums,this or that, EPs etc...) experience you do or heard so many bands! It is to me if you can be friends and chat about metal or music in general. Same thing when in bands, I dont play with guys/gals that have the same taste always, but play with musicians that play/write/sing good music i want to play to. Elitist is just bull shit to me, I, myself am not better then anyone in regards to metal, there is always a cool person, band, sound or show that we all will never experience or will get to hear and if we did. That is all the matters!

I diagree. All I can think of right now is that Pantera super fan, who the only other metal bands they can name off is black label society and metallica. Now i don't think i'm better than this person, that would be silly, its just music. However i still want them to die.

this thread also misses the point that there are casual metal fans out there. They enjoy it, have a surface knowlege of it, but aren't in it all for social reasons. They like the music but don't care enough to go that deep.

This thread is stupid, because it's based on social structure, not music. The idea of a "metalhead" is social, its not just somebody how likes metal alot.

old news

But alas, that is the point of the thread.

I don't care what anyone says, metal has always had an inner "social" structure, as with any subculture.
If anything, I should have made it clear in this thread it should be about music rather than social structure. Fans of music don't need to be part of a social clique.. yet, metal has always had ones inside of it. I'm interested in hearing what NEH has to say about this, but then again, who really cares?

Typical aril post begins with positing a theory and then denouncing it before anyone else can. YOU WIN, YOU ALWAYS DO.

I denounced it in the initial post. Look harder

I know, that's what I'm saying.

I only made this to spark a discussion on this lame-ass board. Could care less what anyone really thinks about my arilliusbm posts at this point; I think i've made a mockery of my own self on this site over the past few years. REAL LIFE CONVERSATIONS OR GTFO INTERNET

Last time I tried having a conversation with you IRL, you told me my thread was racist...

that was a strange way of saying "hey dude, i got to go grab something to eat. hope you enjoyed the agalloch show, catch me another time."

I listen to metal for the quality, rawness, creativeness, aggression and meaning of it. that is all.

AND YOU DIDNT LIKE ILDJARN'S STRENGTH & ANGER? YOUR ARRESTED

i probably should have been more specific about what i mean by rawness, not necessarily a style but a way it comes out naturally..like when i am writing riffs.

the rawness that is created by hate and aggression, not so much raw production.

bennyhillifier

the cat on the helicopter part was very hypnotic to me.

Absolutely. All genres have a hierarchy. Not just of people, but ideas. Metal does it through t-shirts.

Damn, I haven't seen that video in YEARS... seriously forgot about its existence.

Now if someone could find that flash video of the Peter Pan guy to the "we're in Washington" song, I'd love you forever.

all this talk about metal heads....silly.

If I had to classify myself as one it would be a pothead that likes some metal.

I grew up on metal and hardcore but now listen to more johnny cash and tom waits than I do slayer or agnostic front. I like good bands no matter what genre. 95+% of EVERYTHING sucks. I mostly go to metal shows cause I cant stand most people at punk, hardcore, hip hop, indie, mainstream rock etc. shows.

only being an anti social pothead hobby rocker elitist is real.

Lady GaGa and that "SEX IN THE AAIIRR AND I LIKE THE SMEELL OFF ITTT" song they always play on KISS108, or gtfo.

i'm guilty of metal elitism sometimes, but it's really nothing more than the ravings of an old man. i just miss the days when it took effort to find out about music, you found it through research and reading. so i felt that when you did find something you liked, you had a bigger kinship with it since it took effort to find. i feel that the "point and click" generation is kind of lost in the metal world, they are bombarded from every direction with countless new bands, and i don't think that gives them the ability to absorb and connect with it. i grew up as the sole metal person at my school, i had no friends into metal, i just read magazines and bought albums, and i developed a core based around it. i heard Master of Puppets when i was 12 in 1993, and i went on this journey to find as much metal as i could. i guess i just feel bad for this new generation, all they have to do is sign online and they can hear anything, anytime. maybe they have it better than i did growing up, who knows, but to me the joy was in the discovery, it made it personal. it's basically an Indiana Jones vs. Belloq situation. Jones loved it and found it, but Belloq stole it and called it his own.

the fakery does run rampant, but i don't lose my shit over it. i'll joke about it, but overall i don't give a shit. listen to what sounds good to you. if it's ICP, then so be it.

fuck being a metal elitist. only being an all out music elitist is real.

...which is why Berklee is the best school around.

Is there a serious collector market for music like this? If so, this will be my next wave of elitism.


bennyhillifier

Beethoven awaits.

I'd argue that his 'moonlight sonata' is one of the best and most emotional pieces of music ever written.

a cat with a Pop Tart body who farts rainbows. huh.

i hope those vocals are actually spoken in real time, i want to see the person that did it.

I always thought one of the key defining things that defined metal as unique and seperate from rock n'roll was that it's about the music first, not the social aspects. People who don't get that don't get metal... which I guess is the point this thread is making in a way, so that's cool.

Apparently the outward social scaffold of metal in Central America involves getting offered weed when I wear a stoner metal band shirt and street merchants asking if I want to buy some coke when I'm wearing a Teitanblood shirt.

I kind of wish I had a Dragonforce shirt just to see what kind of gay sexual favors it'd net me.

I rarely post anything on here but I stumbled upon this thread and since I may be one of the oldest (ugh) veteran metal fans on here, and also a female (though more common now than it was when I younger) I may, or may not, have an interesting perspective on this topic.

So the elitism thing is not a new phenomenon and in fact, in some ways it was worse in the 70's/80's then it is now. But then it was mostly metal vs. everything and everyone else and not as much elitism within the genre or scene or whatever you want to call it. This is partly due to how metal fans were exposed to the music and partly due to the times. It was totally a social thing. You had to know other metal fans to get to hear new metal. Tape trading was the thing back then as there was no internet or mp3's or cd's. You got into fan clubs and bands would mail out demo tapes. Only the big bands got their albums printed and sold in stores. This really reinforced the elite mentality. It was like being part of an exclusive club, and it was almost 100% a boys club. Any female fans had to get tough pretty quick and the guys would quiz you on your band/music knowledge constantly because you were a female and couldn't possibly understand what a riff was(we were just there for the guys amusement according to most of them or just a girlfriend). Since there were so few of us we were considered even more of an oddity then the metal fans as a whole.

Anyway, it was totally a social thing then. Yes it was about the music but to get to the music you had to be part of the scene. I guess that means we were "hipsters" or "scene-sters" of a sort. When the mid/late 80's hair metal thing happened and metal went into the mainstream of music, then you saw real elitism within the metal community. "Fuck that Poison and Warrant shit! I only listen to Slayer and Merciful Fate!" Sadly, these things would turn into physical altercations more often then not solely based on musical tastes.

The elitism is still out there and I think we "veterans" a partly to blame for this. I think we have handed down that mentality to the newer fans. Maybe inadvertently, maybe purposefully, but it is much more complicated and thankfully not nearly as heated as it was. The "good old days" of metal were not always as great as some think. It was a very violent and very hateful time but I know lots of people who tout it as being the only real metal years. Yes, there are still a lot of one genre people which is really sad but there are more and more people who are into music as art not just background music for life. And although there are a lot of bands re-hashing old ideas there are also a ton of amazing bands out there in metal and without the "newbies" a lot of that wouldn't happen.

Like what you like and never apologize to anyone for it. You like Hatebreed? Great. You like Britney Spears? Great. Just because I don't should not make it less worthwhile for you. Without the mainstream art and music, you would never get a subculture of those rebelling against it, pushing boundaries and creating something interesting.

Long winded old wench post is long.

Oh yeah.... Juggalos? Fuck them. Haha

i listen to metal because its edgy and cool and my mom hates it

you're straightedge now?



/unfunny

ba dum TSSSSHH

Either that, or they're just imitating it.

Social posing is personal... elitism isn't.

Elitists just want good music, and to exclude shitty music, because with shitty music come hordes of morons and they drown out the good stuff.

but doesn't the term 'elitist' or 'elitism' imply 'looking down' on someone/something? thinking that you or your idea is quantifiably 'better' than someone elses? in other words: snobbery? conceit? arrogance? and isn't this why elitism is generally considered a bad thing?

Elitists want/need to feel superior. To do this, they label others and their opinions inferior. Taste and opinion are not quantifiable, one person's taste or opinion cannot be superior to another's. Elitists aren't smarter than you, better than you, their opinions aren't more valid than yours. They just like to think they are.

Let the people have their Slipknots, their Cradle of Filths, their Nickelbacks. Who cares if idiots like shitty music? How does that harm you or your music?

DAMN STRAIGHT
WE ARE THE ELITE
FUCK YOU ALL
BOW TO US
FEEL MY WRATH
TUM, TU, TUM, TUM, TUMS
NO ONLY PRILOSEC IS REAL

This is what people say when they get buthurt by 'elitists' without the 'elitists' actually ever saying or hinting at this. JUST SAYING.

I think getting panties in a bunch over 'elitism' = the new elitism/hipster.

100th post of crap

I got into Metal to get laid. You ever been to a Metal show? Thats why I don't listen to Metal anymore.

and another interesting and informative contribution by thesac.

serious business

to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.
to become the true master you must first learn all the basic skills and then train a lot.

I consider myself an elitist, so I have no idea what you mean here. Something about buthurt and panties...

This thread belongs on the ANUS forums. Go there and tell them about how awesome Opeth is and they'll try to out-Nietzsche you to death. Honestly, I used to subscribe to a lot more of the metal "philosophy" when I was in hike school, but it doesn't really fucking matter. I probably listen to other genres as much if not more than I listen to metal now, and I'm okay with that. I definitely feel like some of it is based in logic, but I don't want to grow up to be a bald old man who once tried to defeat Niagra falls in battle, hitting on ugly chicks in bars and then taking pictures next to them and posting them on the internet. Some times you just gotta have fun and deal with the bullshit. Stop trying to out-metal people, cause no one actually wins.

What if it's not about the ego, but the actual, you know, genre, and art and stuff?

If you say the sky is green and the grass is blue, and I say the opposite, I think my idea's better.



It's not about personal dick-size comparing.

It's about wanting a better idea.

Which color is the sky?

We need a real answer. Pissing contests are for preteens.

We are in a time where the Holy Rule is that everyone is equal, and so every idea is equal. Elitism violates this. Unlike anarchy, Satanism, national socialism, etc. it's actually a reversal of the dominant paradigm.

The fact is that everything is an opinion, but some opinions are closer to truth than others. And if you value correct answers...

absolute undeniable win of a post

"Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others." Ring a bell?

An idea isn't 'better' just because it's yours. Or just because it's contrary, or post-whatever.

There are opinons and there are facts. Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective. The sky is blue. Sorry!

Do I think the music I like is better than the music the white trash asshole across the street likes? YES. But there's no absolute 'truth' about what music is 'better' than any other, or anyone's taste more 'correct' than anyone elses. Even if you can put lots of big fancy words together real good.

I'm pretty sure too that most people listen to music simply because they like it and not because they're searching for an "idea".

Music is an escape. Save the mental energy used on creating ideas for the real world, where it actually matters.

i hope i live to be 100 so i can bitch about metal centennially.

My very first ouchdrummer thread on here was about Metal Elitism, and how sick i was of people correcting me when i would call a "crust" song "deathmetal" (etc.) uggghhhh.