I need somebody to give me a good rant on why pay to play sucks. A kid I know wants to organize pay to play shows that his own band would play for free at. My arguments aren't getting through to him. Good thing his music sucks.

ITT: Martins being curious about why pay-to-play sucks

ITT: Martins already knows why it sucks. He wants someone to say it more eloquently and with more expletives.

pay to play fucking sucks yahear?

ITT: sucking off composted?

mmmmmmmmmm

kthxbai

What's the deal with airline peanuts? They give it to you in this impossible to open bag. You spend a half hour muscling it open, and there's like 5 nuts inside. And you're sittin there like "hey, goober, where's the rest of it?!" Airlines, don't get me started.

I think your only argument needs to be that this kid douching other bands while excepting his own. You don't even need an anti-pay-to-play rant, just tell him not to have a double standard.

Just tell him he's a fucking idiot and slap his nuts with a hammer. He'll understand.

done.

tell him to put the new archaeon on it for free.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249U-sAHx0I

pay to play is worth it if u wanna see the band ur playing with only

tell him to go read the age of end CD release show thread

even then... its kinda meh

You won't get through to your friend, Martins, because in this scenario, for him, this is a sweet deal. The bands do all the work, cover the cost of the show, and he just shows up and rocks.

Pay-To-Play is ethically wrong because it makes the workers pay to work. Any other job that did that would receive such a high level of protest that no one would ever get it to come together, but because performing music comes with a "rush", because it provides "creative fufillment", and because most musicians are used to losing out in the end, they somehow legitimize greedy behavior by actually giving someone money so they can get a job.

Imagine being a chef that had to pay the restaurant every time he cooked a meal? And couldn't recoup on his overhead? That wouldn't last long, I tells ya.

At this point in time, there is so much exploitation and downfall in the music industry that I don't even know where to begin. It's a million fish in a pond big enough for a hundred. A ratio such as this will always put ideas, schemes, plans in the minds of people looking to rip other people off. It can't go back to the "old days" where there was 6 bands in a 100 mile radius so you the odds were in the bands' favor.

I can understand where the need for p2p comes from, but in this specific case your friend is just being a jew. If everyone else has to sell tickets and pay up, his band should too. Renting halls out is expensive as shit these days and to make your money back, especially if there are headliners asking for guarantees, means you need assloads of people to come to break even. Draw is usually up to luck so having bands pre-sell tickets guarantees a certain amount of income and allows the promoter to break even. If your friend is asking everyone else to do it though, he needs to man up and sell tickets too.

This thread needs a more positive message.


bennyhillifier

Friend: Hai. I'm thinking about booking a pay 2 play show!

You: Do you want to end up like some kind of pedophile that books 15 year olds to play with the Acacia Strain at Rockos so you can sniff their little sisters' hair?

Friend: ....Ya.

You: Well then you're on the right track.

Xmikex has the 2 most informative posts in this thread.

#3 on it's way:

If a promoter wants bands to pay to play, it basically means that they don't want to do the work promoting their show, and that the bands aren't going to promote themselves.

I don't remember the name of the club, but it's on brookline ave in boston... i think it's called the "cobblestone" maybe? I don't remember, but they did something that's just as effective, but doesn't force bands to pay, it only forces them to promote. They ask everyone at the door who they're there to see, and if a particular band doesn't get at least 15 people (non band members) than they can't play there again. I like this move, it FORCES bands to promote, and it doesn't charge them money.

They could also take the unorthodox approach of gauging a band's promotion efforts off of whether or not the room is empty during the show.

That works, although asking at the door is a little more exact. And yes, i think it is definitely each bands job to promote for their shows, there are obviously exceptions though. For instance, touring bands.. when a band is from cali playing in boston, it's up to the promoter to make sure people KNOW they're playing in boston.

Jim--that approach has its ups and downs too. Imagine the last time our bands played together at OBriens. Who would Wren (for example) say he was going to see? On multi-band shows, someone could get fucked over pretty easily.

thats easy ...wren can just multiply himself so each clone can say they are there for a different band.

The funny thing is that most younger bands don't realize they could play a similar show by putting it on themselves, and end up making a lot more money at the door to split between the bands, as opposed to saying "you get $1 for every ticket you sell after 50"

I started posting something. Got 2 paragraphs in. Realized it was a rant about pay 2 play. Cut myself off. Posted a lolcat instead.

part of me hopes that I never have to face that decision.

Another part of me would love to see the bands duke it out for my vote haha

I am the biggest star trek nerd out of both bands, therefore you would vote for us.

how did I make it into this thread without saying anything at all? damn you Garret

^_^

Well, I also don't think the approach works for Monday nights at O'Briens.. but i just like playing shows.

What it comes down to is that the booker/promoter can do things however they want to, if the bands don't like their style, don't play those shows.

Name the Klingon General that Christopher Plummer played in Star Trek VI and you got it!

I didn't even read the whole thread, I just wanted to say your friend is being a douche if he's gonna make every other band sell tickets except his own. The few shows I put on I never made bands sell tickets, and if I was to lose money I would have manned up and paid up. But if I was to make other bands sell tickets I would have made my own band do it.

Ya, he's a mega-douche. Gonna show him this thread lawl

Sell tickets and one day maybe you can be as awesome as CSDO.

yep.
if you think the show's gonna "help you make it big" then do it. if you're not concerned with that then don't play. i hate gigs where we pay to play, mostly because i live 2 hours roughly from the places we've done that for and i can't sell tix for that shit and i can't convince people to drive that and pay teh dollars. i usually end up making my contribution by buying my girlfriend a ticket and calling it a day while aaron goes to malls and blows little boys (i would assume... why would they come see us otherwise?) so they'll buy tickets. works out nice.

LOL. Which Aaron?

It's true, Aaron LOVES the little boys

i dont really get the argument here, this other dude wants to set up shows and his own band doesnt have to sell tickets. Makes sense to me, hes starting it he can do what ever the hell he wants. in the end he will get fucked the hardest if not enough money is being made, im sure before then he'll realize it might be a good idea to sell some just in case.

Here's what will happen - he will end up selling tickets to get people to show up. the other bands will also tell him that not selling tickets for your own shows is fucking lame, and they won't want to do his work for him after a while. That's IF his band stays together long enough..

Only Blood Will Tell played with Acacia Strain - They are not 15 ( Last time i checked ) and they did not pay to play. Unfortunately none of their sisters came so i was not able to sniff their hair.

I agree with my astute bass player: Agree to play these shows then have Tim, Aaron and Gibbs sell all the tickets - It hasn't failed me yet and it ain't gonna fail me next time.

what's the name of his band?

Being in a band is not a job its a hobby. You cant really compare the two.
Hobbies cost money.

Obviously you are a hobby rocker and wouldn't understand what it's like to work in the "biz"

If you are not on tour playing sold out shows. This is a hobby. Wake up. Go get a job.